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Professor Appointed to Probe Schiavo Case
Guardian Unlimited ^ | Nov 1, 2003 | Vickie Chachere

Posted on 10/31/2003 8:16:51 PM PST by Future Useless Eater

Professor Appointed to Probe Schiavo Case

Saturday November 1, 2003 1:01 AM

By VICKIE CHACHERE
Associated Press Writer

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - A judge appointed a University of South Florida professor on Friday to independently investigate the case of a severely brain-damaged woman at the center of a right-to-die battle.

Jay Wolfson, an expert on health care financing, will report to Gov. Jeb Bush and recommend whether the stay the governor enacted to keep Terri Schiavo alive should be allowed to remain.

Schiavo suffered severe brain damage when her heart stopped due to a chemical imbalance and has been in a persistent vegetative state for more than a decade. Doctors have said there is no hope for her recovery.

Her husband, Michael Schiavo, has fought to have her feeding tube removed, saying his wife did not want to be kept alive artificially.

Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, dispute that claim and have fought to keep their daughter alive, saying they believe she could be rehabilitated.

Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was removed for six days in October before the Florida Legislature and Gov. Jeb Bush enacted a special law to have it reinserted. The law also required a guardian to be appointed.

George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo, and the American Civil Liberties Union filed briefs this week challenging the constitutionality of the governor's action. The state is expected to respond on Monday.

The judge said that if the law is found to be unconstitutional, Wolfson is to cease his work.

The Schindlers had objected to Wolfson's appointment, claiming comments he made to a television station indicated he was biased against the newly enacted law. The judge said he found no evidence of bias.

Wolfson did not return calls seeking comment.

The judge ordered Wolfson to report to the governor in 30 days, but said the deadline could be extended if needed.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: euthanasia; felos; greer; pearse; schiavo; schindler; strangulation; terri; terrischiavo; wolfson
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To: saveterri1
Wolfson's already made some boo boos that I'm not at liberty to discuss imo. They think they're so sneaky. NOT!!!
301 posted on 11/03/2003 1:12:04 PM PST by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com...conservative-spirit.org FR Site)
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To: FL_engineer
FL_engineer:

Thanks for the transcripts post!!!!!!

You are THE SOURCE on this subject.

Harv
302 posted on 11/03/2003 1:15:24 PM PST by saveterri1 (Clarity Leads To Power! - Blood is Thicker Than Water)
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To: saveterri1
You'll catch on to FR in no time if you're abel.
303 posted on 11/03/2003 1:26:03 PM PST by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com...conservative-spirit.org FR Site)
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To: shhrubbery!
Your use of the word purported reveals that it's you who has no knowlege of the case. Again I refer you to the court record. The findings of the court reflect that indeed Michael Schiavo made extensive efforts at providing rehabilitive therapy for Terri. Not good enough? Read the Guardian ad Litem's report wherein he describes Shiavos efforts as greater than one would normally expect of a guardian. The findings of the court are the legal facts in this case.

I used the words "freak of nature" because they apply. The Dr.'s have testified and the court has so found that the tissue comprising Terri's cerebral cortex is DEAD. Absent a cerebral cortex it is scientific and medical fact that there can be no cognition. Anencephalics are born without a cerebral cortex and there is not one scientist or doctor who will tell you that they have any consious thought or awareness of their surroundings.

Dead brain tissue cannot be repaired or regrown. Is is just that- DEAD TISSUE.

As to whether or not the Schindler's have access to the medical records you tell me. I've certainly seen selected portions of those inaccessible records posted her at FR and at the Terri websites. Additionally during the Court process, both on this issue and the malpractice suits, they were certainly were available and reveiwed extensively.

If you are unable to see the obvious differences between circumstance reported in the article you posted and the testimony and evidence presented in this case, you are totally devoid of any critical thinking ability in addition to being ignorant as to the findings of all the courts in this matter and the signicance of the physical evidence presented in those courts.
304 posted on 11/03/2003 1:41:45 PM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Your use of the word purported reveals that it's you who has no knowlege of the case

pur·port·ed ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-pôrtd, -pr-) adj.

Assumed to be such; supposed: the purported author of the story.

[Middle English purporten, to set forth, from Anglo-Norman purporter : pur-, forth (from Latin pr-. See pro-1) + porter, to carry (from Latin portre. See per-2 in Indo-European Roots).] source

Got a problem with the definition of the word, 'purported'?

Again I refer you to the court record.

Got links?

The findings of the court reflect that indeed Michael Schiavo made extensive efforts at providing rehabilitive therapy for Terri. Not good enough?

Not if "the court" who made this "finding" = ONE MAN, Judge Greer, who has shown himself to be biased against the Schindlers. Most higher courts that refused to hear the case based their decision on jurisdictional issues, not the merits of the Schindler's case, IIRC. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post.

If you are unable to see the obvious differences between circumstance reported in the article you posted and the testimony and evidence presented in this case, you are totally devoid of any critical thinking ability

You're setting up a straw man. No one has said that Maria Tetto's case is exactly the same as Terri's, in every single aspect. Of course there are "irrelevant" differences: For instance, Maria is different in that she is not married to Michael Schiavo -- so fortunately, her parents who love her are able to make decisions regarding her care. You fail to show any known and "relevant" difference between Maria Tetto and Terri Schindler Schiavo.

What's important to note about Maria Tetto's case is that, just as in the Terri Schiavo case, doctors insisted that Maria's smiles and hand squeezes were mere "reflexes," and that she had no hope of rehabilitation. THEY WERE WRONG.

I used the words "freak of nature" because they apply.

Thanks for revealing yourself, Dr. Mengele.

305 posted on 11/03/2003 2:14:49 PM PST by shhrubbery!
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To: daylate-dollarshort
I also note you fail to acknowledge that Schiavo's "extensive efforts at providing rehabilitive therapy for Terri" were over 10 years ago.

Since that time, Schiavo has even refused to allow therapy to prevent Terri's hand contractions so that her nails would not dig into her palms!

Maria Tetto's parents were able to obtain medication that prevents the contraction of Maria's hands. NOW MARIA IS ABLE TO WRITE.

Interesting also, that you fail to note another "relevant" similarity between Maria Tetto and Terri Schiavo: They are both still fed by feeding tube.

Maria can speak, make jokes, laugh, write, and go to school. Why can't Terri be given the chance?

306 posted on 11/03/2003 2:38:20 PM PST by shhrubbery!
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To: shhrubbery!
One last attempt........

The young lady that was the subject of the article did not receive a diagnosis of persistant vegetative state. The only dignosis provided in the article was that she was in a coma. Vast difference.

Her father states that he never had to make a life or death decision because early on there had been a medical finding of the presence of brain activity. Even so he states that he would have delayed such a decision for some 6 months. In the Schiavo case years had passed before that life or death decision was contemplated. It has now been 13 years without a change in Terri's condition.

"Not if "the court" who made this "finding" = ONE MAN, Judge Greer, who has shown himself to be biased against the Schindlers. Most higher courts that refused to hear the case based their decision on jurisdictional issues, not the merits of the Schindler's case, IIRC. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post.

You allege that Judge Greer is biased. This is not true as a matter of law and I would assert as a matter of fact. Even if the Schindlers believed that Judge Greer was biased they did not raise this on appeal except to argue that the denial of their "emergency motion to hold ruling in abeyance pending development of additional medical evidence". Pursuant to Florida law, an adverse finding isn't sufficient to prove bias. The appellate court appropriately stated that even if this issue was raised and argued they would not have reversed.

Had the Schindlers (or their attorneys) thought that there was a bias on the part of Judge Greer, they simply had to file a disqualification motion at any time prior to his decision and within a prescribed time limit after the incident that caused them to believe, for whatever reason, that the Judge was biased against their cause. Under the application of Florida law, the Judge would have had to grant their motion to disqualify. The first disqualification is a gimmee. The Schindlers failed to raise bias as an issue until after a final order was issued. Won't work.

I won't provide you the links- there are things you should do for yourself. However I'll give you a few leads.

Search for:

Schindler v. Schiavo (In re Guardianship of Schiavo), 780 So. 2nd 176 (Fla. 2d DCA 2001)(Schiavo I)
Schindler v. Schiavo (In re Guardianship of Schiavo), 792 So. 2d 551 (Fla. 2d DCA 2001)(Schiavo II)
Schindler v. Schiavo (In re Guardianship of Schiavo), 800 So. 2d 640 (Fla. 2d DCA 2001)(Schiavo III)
Schindler v. Schiavo (In re Guardianship of Schiavo), Case Number 2D02-5394, Opinion Filed June 6, 2003, ALTENBERND, Chief Judge, FULMER and STRINGER, JJ., Concur

It all contained within these decisions. It again should be noted that the Florida Supreme Court and The U.S. Supreme Court has declined this case. Are all the Judges biased??

307 posted on 11/03/2003 3:37:55 PM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: FL_engineer
her heart stopped due to a chemical imbalance

a "chemical imbalance." What, like an injection of potassium solution? Calcium solution? that would do it.

308 posted on 11/03/2003 4:02:49 PM PST by Terriergal (Psalm 11: 3 "When the foundations are being destroyed, what can the righteous do?")
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To: FL_engineer
thanks for the ping. This whole case makes me near despondent for the blindness of our country.
309 posted on 11/03/2003 4:05:01 PM PST by Terriergal (Psalm 11: 3 "When the foundations are being destroyed, what can the righteous do?")
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To: FL_engineer
Thanks for the ping!
310 posted on 11/03/2003 4:10:36 PM PST by attagirl
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To: shhrubbery!
Thanks for your uplifting post. I hope the Schindlers see this.
311 posted on 11/03/2003 4:17:05 PM PST by attagirl
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To: daylate-dollarshort
>>It again should be noted that the Florida Supreme Court and The U.S. Supreme Court has declined this case. Are all the Judges biased??

Appeals court judges aren't supposed to re-try the whole case. They need not read all the facts of the case, and probably don't.
312 posted on 11/03/2003 4:19:21 PM PST by Graymatter
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To: TigersEye; HiTech RedNeck; sfRummygirl; dandelion; NautiNurse; PeyersPatches; ...
Ping to # 313.
314 posted on 11/03/2003 4:43:48 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: Don Joe
And this Harv has edited his personal page on the same day as another freeper has edit his personal page and added a fancy new tag line who has also been mentioned on this thread, who just may be one in the same person as this Harv.

Seems these three have a great deal in common.

315 posted on 11/03/2003 4:52:39 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: No More Gore Anymore
I agree.

Enthusiasm for a cause can be stifled when other emotions are stifled.

316 posted on 11/03/2003 4:53:44 PM PST by syriacus (Casual comments about tubes, made after watching a 3 handkerchief movie, do not justify euthanasia.)
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To: Don Joe
And this Harv has edited his personal page on the same day as another freeper has edited his personal page and added a fancy new tag line. Not only do these three sound alike , have the exact same message, post to support each other. But they have the same need to update their profiles on the same day around the same time. Wow.... Interesting. Have you noticed they are online at the same time as well.
317 posted on 11/03/2003 4:56:35 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: Graymatter
Au contraire~~~~~~~~~

You really ought to read the June 6 2nd DCA opinion before you commit yourself to this statement.

From that opinion: "The Schlindlers have urged this court to conduct a de novo review of the evidence in this case, primarily because of the finality of this decision for their daughter."

The court then correctly pointed out that "it would be improper to reveiw such a fact-intensive determination using a de novo standard." The Judges of the appellate court then "closely examined all of the evidence in this record". They go on to say:

"We have repeatedly examined the video tapes, not merely watching short segment but carefully observing the tapes in their entirety. (emph. added) We have examined the brain scans with the eyes of educated laypersons and condsidered the explanations provided by the doctors in the transcripts. We have concluded that, if we were called upon to review th guardianship's decision de novo, we would still affirm it". (emph. added)

It would seem that while the de novo review "is not appropriate" from a legal standpoint, what they did in arriving at their decision was a de novo review.

If you would take the time to read this opinion in its entirety you will see the lengths the Court went to in arriving at their decision.

When I read this extrordinary decision, I wept.

318 posted on 11/03/2003 4:56:52 PM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: floriduh voter
Floriduh voter:

Oh, we are verrrrrry able, but yes the FR Board is new to me. As you can observe here, basically a newbe induction by Fire and Caustic Acids!!!!! LOL.

Yesterday was nothing short of a “eat the young” shark feeding frenzy! Real WWF SmackDown. I guess people forgot it was the Lord’s Day. First time to check today to see if carried over. Surprised the thread didn’t get pulled by FR, but very glad it didn’t. THANK YOU FR WEBMASTER!! We are archiving this thread 24/7 anyway, on our server, just in case.

“Perturbation Theory” here has yielded some nice nuggets. In about 3 weeks, a few people on here are going to have real trouble looking at themselves in the mirror because of all their non-Christian conduct on this thread and newly obtained knowledge. :-)

* * Hey Floriduh voter * *


I am e-mailing later this evening a "positional statement and disclosure”, (including previous PAC vet v PM request, which is not a problem whatsoever), to a mutual friend of ours. Will CC PM for your thoughts and consideration.

Keep up the fantastic work!

Harv


-“Clarity Leads to Power”-
319 posted on 11/03/2003 5:11:19 PM PST by saveterri1 (Terri’s Fight, It’s a "Blood War" * Mikey-Felos & Co.–They're Goin Down!!!)
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To: bjcintennessee
"But who called the paramedics onto the scene in the first place?"

Michael called Terri's dad who told him to get off the phone and call 911, which he did. Terri's dad then immediately called her brother who lived in the same apartment/condominium complex as Terri and Michael and he went over there right away and was there when paramedics arrived.

320 posted on 11/03/2003 5:27:23 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: saveterri1
Hi Saveterri1 - I know youare new here, butIthink you should still answer my questions. Where is your proof that Terri had an eating disorder.. And where are any links or supporting info. for us to verify this PAC for Terri you calim to represent.

I would like some "clarity" on those issues.

BTW, You sure do seem to be much nicer today. Did you turn over a new leaf last night? Just curious.

Perhaps you could answer my post tonight. Or will you avoid my questions again , will you claim that it is irrelavant to "our " cause.

321 posted on 11/03/2003 5:52:42 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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Comment #322 Removed by Moderator

To: saveterri1
So does that mean no linky?

If you are going to challenge me to a dual or something.. you should scream out... ARE YOU GAME MAN.....just a bit of advice for future threats and rants :}

323 posted on 11/03/2003 6:09:25 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: No More Gore Anymore
Sorry about that, my apology’s. PM me and let me know what you want to do here!
324 posted on 11/03/2003 6:18:17 PM PST by saveterri1 (Terri’s Fight, It’s a "Blood War" * Mikey-Felos & Co.–They're Goin Down!!!)
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To: saveterri1
Another apology? Another invitation to talk by "PM" Haven't we been through this already?
325 posted on 11/03/2003 6:22:34 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Try reading the decisions of the Second District Court of Appeal- all four of them.

One of the major misconceptions about the appeals-court system in this country is that it serves as a backup fact-finder. It does not. If a trial court declares something to be true, even if that finding is contradicted by 99.44% of the available evidence, an appeals court will almost never go against that finding of fact. If there is evidence that was not properly considered, an appeals court may direct a trial court to consider the appropriate evidence, but if the trial court judge claims to have done so, the appeals court will not challenge his judgement.

In the cases related to Terri Schindler Schiavo, there are at least two findings of fact which the trial court made which defy common sense. Unfortunately, trial court findings of fact which are 'procedurally correct' cannot be challenged on the basis of being just plain wrong. Since Judge George Greer has been the only finder of fact in these cases, his blindness (literal and figurative) renders the appeals court system useless.

First dubious finding of fact: that Michael Schiavo's contradictory hearsay testimony constitutes "clear and compelling" evidence that Terri wishes to be starved to death in her current situation. The "clear and compelling" standard is the same standard applied in criminal cases when juries are instructed to find a defendant guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". Judge Greer may not see any room for doubt, but it seems pretty clear to me that there's lots of room for doubt:

An appellate court may not be allowed to question Greer's judgement, but it sure looks to me as though he's willfully ignoring lots sound reasons for doubt. As outrageous as his findings of fact there are, however, he's made another that's even more outrageous: he has declared that there exists no potential conflict between Michael's interests and Terris. This after Michael's lawyer asked Greer to dismiss a guardian ad litem who sought to point out that such conflicts clearly existed.

Here again, the appeals court merely notes that since Judge Greer didn't find there to be a potential conflict of interest, he must have had a good reason for so finding. Never mind that:

One might reasonably argue whether such facts demonstrate sufficient conflict-of-interest to absolutely disqualify Michael Schiavo as a guardian. On the other hand, to suggest that there isn't even a potential conflict of interest sufficient to justify appointing a guardian ad litem is absurd. Note that the court wouldn't have to find any wrongdoing to require a guardian ad litem in a case like this; the potential alone is sufficient to mandate that a guardian ad litem be appointed to ensure that Michael is acting reasonably as guardian. Of course, the fact that such a guardian ad litem would find Michael's actions very unreasonable is probably the reason Terri has gone for years without one.

Yes, Terri's case has gone through lots of appeals. But since the appeals courts are effectively forbidden from examining the key facts of the case and are instead bound by Judge Greer's findings, it really doesn't matter. Fundamentally in this case Judge Greer has made findings of "fact" which go against the clear letter and spirit of existing statutes, and so the legislature and governor have acted to try to have the law carried out in the manner they intended and directed in the first place.

326 posted on 11/03/2003 6:25:42 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: supercat
Exactly.
327 posted on 11/03/2003 6:29:37 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: daylate-dollarshort
If you would take the time to read this opinion in its entirety you will see the lengths the Court went to in arriving at their decision.

Do you have a link?

328 posted on 11/03/2003 6:33:51 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: saveterri1
Hello Harv,
Just had to cut in and ask how you are doing over here? I see your friend, lawyer Ed is here with you. Has Dr.Nancy showed up yet to back you up? Maybe you have new friends here, that weren't with you before on my site.
Curious that you are spinning like a top again- for the Schindlers on one turn and against them in another. I thought by now you would have decided whether you were on their side or against them, but I guess not. If you are not careful you could get dizzy. Or forget who you are or who's side you are on.
I don't post here often- but I have read enough on here to know there are some really good researchers here, and maybe even some lawyers and Drs and PI's, other than yourself and your friends of course.
I would be real careful not to slip up here Harv.
329 posted on 11/03/2003 7:18:59 PM PST by Tammy8 (Moderator helpterri yahoo group)
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To: Tammy8
Why Tammy8 , you are not sugessting that you have prior knowledge to this Harv and his PAC for Terri are you? Sounds like he never gave you a link or info to verify he is being honest about his group of experts. Do tell....
330 posted on 11/03/2003 7:38:57 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: TigersEye
GREAT HOMEPAGE
331 posted on 11/03/2003 7:51:12 PM PST by zip
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To: floriduh voter
>>Wolfson's already made some boo boos that I'm not at >>liberty to discuss imo.



Excellent, I/we definitely felt better after the hearing late Friday. I liked Felos “crying around” comments in the print media over some of Judge’s Demer’s rulings. But you got to admit the man is eloquent in this speech:

>>George Felos, the attorney for Michael Schiavo, said he >>believes the order Demers signed "reflects a little bit >>of puzzlement on the party of the judiciary on the >>involvement of the governor."

I am not real good with all that fancy English – but I think what George is saying is, 1) that his National Right-To-Die Test Case is starting to unravel, 2) he has already blow all of Terri’s Medical Trust money (we got some docs here you are going to love!), 3) and Felos is realizing he has NO plan C. That is what this “country boy” thinks he said in that above noted press “ACLU smoke signal”.

I/we have dealt with Felos types before. Felos & Co. plays VERY dirty, using passive-aggressive “slant” approaches. Felos & Co. likes to hide behind books, loop-holes in the Laws, and “Judge’s robes”. But he/they will fold in a second if taken straight on; with the hard NO BS FACTS (dump all this other stuff!); you don't stop the pressure; and you “draw him out into the street” with your “line” of legal offense. Works every time!

Felos is already rattled, making uncharacteristic mistakes, and totally blew it letting Michael "out of his cage" to do Larry King Live. I wish many FR posters that blasted Larry over that “power puff” interview, (and I will not state publically what else transpired post-show which was ridiculous) could understand how well Mr. Larry "came out of the hard streets of Miami, with a PhD in hard-knocks, and a grand-larceny arrest record) King set Michael up in that interview. King is a "street pro" and it was beautiful!

Michael never knew what hit him. The interview did WONDERS for the Terri’s Right-To-Life Movement and the media finally starting to “open up their eyes” on this case.

Thanks for the heads-up on Wolfson!

Harv

C-34573-IA
332 posted on 11/03/2003 7:54:40 PM PST by saveterri1 (Terri’s Fight, It’s a "Blood War" * Mikey-Felos & Co.–They're Goin Down!!!)
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To: TigersEye
No. I won't. Judge Greer has refused to hear the Schindler's doctors and that is troubling. One doctor not showing up doesn't expain that away.

He actually allowed 12 Drs to testify (10 honest and 2 bought and paid for by Michael baby) but refused to listen to the 10 honest doctors. This one sided ruling really bothers me.

333 posted on 11/03/2003 7:59:53 PM PST by zip
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To: saveterri1; Republic; Don Joe; No More Gore!!!; cyn; dandelion
There will be more breaking tomorrow. AND, THE SCHINDLERS WILL BE ON LARRY KING LIVE maybe on Friday instead of Thursday. Everyone should check their local listings. I've heard both days now. 9:00 est
334 posted on 11/03/2003 8:04:04 PM PST by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com...conservative-spirit.org FR Site)
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Now that's de novo! Someone suggesting that I, Graymatter, do more reading :)
Your original remark was about the Florida Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court. "Are all the judges biased?" Now you are talking about the DCA. As you point out they refused to re-try the case, which is what I said also. BTW, examining all the evidence, as they claim to have done, is not all there is to re-trying the case.
335 posted on 11/03/2003 8:08:23 PM PST by Graymatter
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To: daylate-dollarshort
>>When I read this extrordinary decision, I wept.

For what? The "freak of nature?"
336 posted on 11/03/2003 8:10:55 PM PST by Graymatter
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To: saveterri1
(2) Our PAC’s Second “Right’s” Mission Statement is:

The Michael Schiavo & George Felo’s “Right-To-Go-Straight-To-Prison” Mission and successful implementation

I love Item #2! How can we accomplish this? I would be willing to donate to a fund to make it happen. These poor excuses for human beings need to be locked up and the key thrown away.

Just one other question - how would one go about getting Felos disbarred?

337 posted on 11/03/2003 8:18:09 PM PST by AnimalLover
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To: No More Gore Anymore
I was never given one shred of evidence of any of his claims. When I asked too many questions, he came over here to post and some of his "friends" stayed just long enough to try to cause problems on the site. They offered no proof, or evidence of their claims either.
I suggest if Harv and his friends are for real and really do want to support the Schindlers they should get in touch with the family through their website: www.terrisfight.org. I know if they post their credentials there,in a message to the family- they could help in a way that would do much more good than posting on message boards.
338 posted on 11/03/2003 8:20:26 PM PST by Tammy8 (Moderator helpterri yahoo group)
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To: daylate-dollarshort
You discount that MS stopped rehabilition...and by that I am not only writing of speech pathologists, therapists-physical, outings (you know, sitting in the sunshine), any color in her room-ie flowers, no noise, ie TV or radio or even MUSIC!!!

And when did he do this...soon after he received the money to cover the COSTS of rehabilitation.

Oh yes...he spent a little over two years proving himself to be a GREAT PROVIDER of REHABILITATION while he busily formed his lawsuit.

Once one...this man changed from the 'good husband' into a MONSTER who not only demanded his wife NOT BE HELPED if she should, for example, CHOKE, catch an infection, etc.

But worse-he has made what life Terri has a living HELL.

And he has punished, in the most breathtakingly way possible, her parents. Whose suffering, knowing what Michael has been doing, must be unbearable.

They are denied accesss to their dtrs medical records, which if in order, could grant them some relief.

They are even punished by NOT BE ALLOWED to visit and love their dtr up....during those times when Michael needs them to shape up and toe the line better.

Michael has TREATENED nurses with FIRING if they offer ANY therapy to Terri...note the affidavit of Carly Iyers, who was afraid of Michael, like many of the health care workers were.

She placed a balled up wash cloth in terri's CRUMPLED UP HAND-to relieve the pressure of her drawn up, curled fingers, and to help absorb the sweat on her palms, and Michael HIT THE FAN over that mild gesture of comfort...calling it therapy.

There is something deeply and horribly wrong with MS. Deeply. The evidence is astounding.

And to have to know your dtrs fate rests at the whim of this vampire, this monster who SPENT his wife's, THEIR DTRS. rehabilitation money, ON A LAWYER who wants to see her put to death, based a a late memory by MS that this was her wish (WHY WASN"T HE TELLING THIS WISH TO THE FOLKS WHO FORKED OVER THE MONEY TO HIM IN THE LAWSUIT...ANYWHERE IN THE LAWSUIT DID IT SAY THAT TERRI WANTED TO DIE???? Nope.)

Nice, huh! A nice living hell to know your daughter not only has to suffer her injury (which was NOT a heart attack) but has to suffer zero gentle comforts everyday of her life. Because someone (s) in her life...want her dead.

339 posted on 11/03/2003 8:23:25 PM PST by Republic
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To: No More Gore Anymore
NO, I don't know who you are nor have I heard via PM from you.

YES, this is my final post to you.
340 posted on 11/03/2003 8:27:47 PM PST by saveterri1 (Terri’s Fight, It’s a "Blood War" * Mikey-Felos & Co.–They're Goin Down!!!)
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To: Tammy8
So these experts are working their butts off to save Terri and no one knows them. Not the Media, not the family, not a moderator for a group of people dedicated to to doing work for Terri, not the family's laywer. They have no links or ability to prove they are really this group of outstanding experts in their fields who call themselves.... PAC for Terri

They blow up or run away when Inquiring minds would like proof of this group of experts, they waffle in their statements and support of fellow posters adn of Terri herself. They encourage others to abandon this cause if we don't agree with them and theri expert evidence that the parent's are stupid, the Schindler's docters are wack jobs ,and Terri had a severe eating disorder.

Well it makes for interesting reading anyway.

341 posted on 11/03/2003 8:31:27 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: saveterri1
Now is this you first last message to me.. or is this to be an ongoing commentary on how I am going to hear that this is your last message to me?
342 posted on 11/03/2003 8:33:20 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross ((were it not for the brave, there would be no land of the free -))
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To: No More Gore Anymore
You have the picture, as I see it. I do wish Harv and other professionals who think they can help would contact the Schindler family and offer their help.
I don't have much time to post here, but I hope I have made some think about things a little.
343 posted on 11/03/2003 8:53:21 PM PST by Tammy8 (Moderator helpterri yahoo group)
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Murder is a crime, and even if the state of FloriDUH doesn't deem it so, it is still a sin. Starving somebody to death is MURDER! It really is that simple.
344 posted on 11/03/2003 9:23:22 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
Murder is a crime, and even if the state of FloriDUH doesn't deem it so, it is still a sin. Starving somebody to death is MURDER! It really is that simple.

Indeed, people need to realize that there's a difference between declining to force-feed someone who is dying and who will die in short order even if fed, and denying food and water to someone who would not otherwise die (at least not in the near future).

Also, perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but my understanding is that the body can only survive so long entirely on "auto-pilot" and that certain higher-level brain functions are necessary to keep things properly in balance. While it would be theoretically possible for someone to have the higher-level functions necessary to maintain balance and yet not have enough brain functionality to ever regain full conciousness, the brain is sufficiently adaptable that it would be more likely that either the damage would not be so severe as to prevent ever regaining conciousness, or else it would have been so severe as to result in death (or the need for more significant life-prolonging measures) within a matter of months. That Terri has survived for years on nothing but a feeding tube would suggest that she was less-badly damaged than Michael et al. have let on.

345 posted on 11/03/2003 9:43:45 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Tammy8; No More Gore Anymore
Yes, Harv, Ed, and Lyn have all migrated over here to FR. One might say they "play VERY dirty, using passive-aggressive “slant” approaches". Glad you stopped by to introduce yourself. I'd like a link to visit your message board if it's open. If you'd rather not post it here, a private reply would be very appreciated.
346 posted on 11/03/2003 10:20:26 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: daylate-dollarshort
I have lurked on these Terri threads for a long time, taking in all of the information from every side. After reading just a few of your posts, I must tell you that you, of all posters, really p!ss me off! Your callous disregard for life is staggering and downright evil.

For all of your big talk, you refuse to acknowledge that Terri is STILL ALIVE! Even moreso, her life is not maintained by medical technology typically considered "extraordinary measures". A simple tube stuck into the stomach for receiving food and water. The only difference between your sustenance and Terri's is that you can put your own food and water in your tube (your esophagus) via your mouth, and Terri's has to go in through her "fake" esophagus. Of course, we don't even know if this feeding tube is even necessary for her!

I am an occupational therapist by profession, with 18 years of experience. In the early years of my career, I specialized in rehabilitation of teens and adults with TBI (traumatic brain injury). I have seen many, many challenging patients who required far more medical intervention than Terri to maintain their lives. I have also witnessed some miraculous recoveries as well, even YEARS after the initial TBI incident. I could tell you about other patients like the girl in the article that seemed to animate you so - I have witnessed this myself.

Again, the key to this matter is that Terri is STILL ALIVE. If you want to make some god-judgment about the relative "quality" of her life as to whether she should live or die, then you have already been rightly identified as a Nazi by another poster. May God have mercy on your soul. Good day.

347 posted on 11/03/2003 10:42:31 PM PST by FatherOfLiberty (Let's put Blockbuster in charge of immigration - just TRY to stay 2 days late!)
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Why are you here? I thought you found out that NOBODY cares what you post...and if your name in on the post...ALMOST ALL OF US TERRI SUPPORTERS, DONT EVEN READ IT.

Just go over and play at the ACLU site with folks who agree with you and leave us conservatve people to post to FR.

The ACLU is for killing Terri and so are YOU!

REAL CONSERVATIVES are against the ACLU and everything they support!!

The DU awaits your posts.

348 posted on 11/03/2003 11:13:32 PM PST by Lion in Winter
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To: shhrubbery!
Remember.... daylate is trying to provoke a fight so we will complain about him again... then JR will pull our threads again. He did this all last week.

Regards, Lion

349 posted on 11/03/2003 11:22:14 PM PST by Lion in Winter
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To: lonevoice; Tammy8; No More Gore Anymore; sweetliberty
Those of you that are pointing out the various 'likely trolls'
here trying to destroy the 'Terri threads'... I thank you!

I have come to the same conclusions... that these people
were here to destroy the Terri talking points.

I see one of them has now had their account closed. Another
was apparently banned from Terri threads but now visits
'similar' threads and turns them into Terri threads
apparently to argue.

others have had lots of posts yanked. Its about time.
350 posted on 11/03/2003 11:25:18 PM PST by Future Useless Eater (Freedom_Loving_Engineer)
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