Lighting Up - Israelis breathe easier because they still smoke.

Reason Online | March 5, 2002 | By Howard Mortman

[metesky]

Did I neglect to mention that my mother, my wife's mother and the mothers of all my friends smoked when they were pregnant and afterwards?

I can not think of one of them that died of a "smoking related illness".

I do know a number, including my own mother, who were killed by incompetent nincompoops masquerading as doctors.

[quebecois]

This story confirms something that I've been saying for a long time: The USA is NOT a free country, but rather a highly regulated administrative dictatorship.

If you define freedom as "being able to do whatever you wish so long as you don't harm someone else", then the USA is absolutely not a free country. Nearly every aspect of our lives is highly controlled and regulated by a myriad of govt agencies which have been sicced on us by busy-body activists of all stripes.

Smoking is just the tip of the iceberg. Try starting a new business. Try hiring an employee. Almost everything, from driving your car to speaking in public, is being controlled and regulated.

Many folks complain that the American govt is corrupt and inefficient. Unfortunately, they have it all wrong. The American government is terribly efficient. In many countries, you don't have to bother paying taxes, since the govt is too inept to find you and prosecute you. Not so with our IRS. Parking, smoking, running a business....these things can all be done fairly easily in much of the world without fear of govt interference. And if some govt agent does interfere...just give him a few bucks, and he disappears! Try doing that with the EPA or OSHA.

At the end of the day, the real story here is that the American people have become such sheep that we are willing to allow our every move to be regulated by nattering nabobs of nosiness, backed up by amoral govt agencies.

[metesky]

I played high scool basketball '60, '61, 62, with a kid that had asthma. He'd run the floor like a demon for four or five minutes then sit down for a while. Never once did I hear any crying about his condition.

He helped us to a league championship and we all got to play on the Garden floor.

[Gabz]

Smokers have become the whipping boy of American society.

Thank you. Well put.

And if made aware of your lung problems, the vast majority of smokers would refrain from causing you discomfort.

[metesky]

I must have spent too long on the daily weed thread.

scool skool. There, that's better.

;O)

[Savage Beast]

“ouch”

Erase those words, Met. Hey, Jim, remove Met's comment. He didn't mean it. Oh, this is awful.

I feel like a Liberal ostrich, trying to shove my head into the sand.

[luckyluke]

"It is self defeating for a society to pass laws that are blatantly and widely disregarded - especially those whose violation is highly visible."

Well, smoking laws in the US are widely obeyed, so the above statement is not applicable to the US.

There are really two issues here: (a) the rights of non-smokers, which can be assured merely by separate airtight sections for smokers and non-smokers in public places and (b) the public health issue affecting smokers, which is a little more complicated. (Don't people have a *right* to decide whether they want to smoke or not?)

It can be debated whether an addict is capable of exercising a right to choose. If you agree with banning heroin and cocaine, it should be obvious that regulating a substance is not wrong per se. The question is whether the substance poses a significant lethal danger (so we don't end up regulating coffee and tea). As regards tobacco, the answer is unquestionably yes. So discouraging tobacco use is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Just another Joe]

We need to export some of our Lawyers over and straighten those people out.

We need to export ALL of our lawyers and straighten OURSELVES out.

[Just another Joe]

It can be debated whether an addict is capable of exercising a right to choose.

Now, shall we debate what an addict is.
Shall we use the 'old' definition or the 'new definition made by the US surgeon general specifically to include users of tobacco?

[Savage Beast]

"We need to export ALL of our lawyers and straighten OURSELVES out."

Isn't that a quote from William Shakespeare?

[Just another Joe]

Paraphrased.

[101viking]

"I guess I've spent too much time in hospitals visiting people who didn't need to be there but for their tobacco use."

I have visited people in the hospital who were in car accidents, do we ban cars? I visited a friend's kid in the hospital who fell off a skateboard, do we ban skateboards? The list can go on forever. I appreciate your compassion and the fact that you hold life precious, but it's my life, if I choose to smoke, sky dive, rock climb, or anything else that comes with a chance of risk it is my business.

Just a note for all of you who will jump up and scream that the issue is second hand smoke, the kid I cited above who hurt himslef on the skateboard? Well, it turns out that he was in a shopping center, and when the skateboard flew out from under him, it hit a woman in the ankle, fracturing it.

[mamelukesabre]

In israel it is a different situation.

Immagine telling soldiers in a battlezone that they shouldn't smoke because it is a health hazard. You know what kind of replies you are liable to get. In Israel, nearly everyone is in the military and you are at risk of being blown to bits at any minute by a suicide bomber. So the additional risk of smoking a cigarette is miniscule.

[Savage Beast]

I like Shakespeare's version better.

[alaskanfan]

Substitute the words fast food, alcohol, red meat, caffene, firearm ownership and many others in this argument to see where your rights for self determination are headed.

I too was a sufferer of asthma at a young age, also suffered with chronic bronchitis (at least once a year). I started smoking in my teens. This did not prevent me from playing highschool football or being on the wrestling and track teams.

Today, my house is the only one that I smoke in. I try to be a polite smoker and not smoke around others even when outside. I do however resent the fact that in addition to paying my share of income tax, I am being unfairly targeted financially by government because of a lifestyle decision I have made.

I thought about quitting once, but recalled the words of my Father "Nobody likes a quiter". I have not had an asthma attack in over twenty years, and contribute it to conditioning of my lungs through smoking.

When someone askes me if I smoke I reply, no, the cigatette does the smoking, I'm just the sucker.

[metesky]

Well, smoking laws in the US are widely obeyed

Not by me.

[metesky]

Isreal may be different, but I understand we have a non-smoking military.

[1Old Pro]

There are more important things for Israel to police.

perhaps we should take another page out of their homeland defense handbook.

The NYS Police wrote thousands fewer speeding tickets in the months following 9-11. They were doing more important things and highway deaths did not rise.....only their treasuries fell.

[metesky]

I remember ten or twelve years ago, the doctors in San Francisco and Isreal both went on strike at about the same time. I both cases, while the doctors were out, the death rate went down.

The Law Enforcement Growth Industry is a 15 or 20 year old file, so adjust the financial and personnel numbers accordingly.

Bear with it, it's an interesting premise.

[metesky]

In both cases the hospital death rate went down.