Bush Proposes Tracking System for Noncitizens

Washington post ^ | January 26, 2002 | Mike Allen and Bill Miller

[Wphile]

Well said. A little factual information should go a long way here but I wouldn't count on it!

[america-rules]

Bush might have sent up trial balloons and I would think that anybody would in the WH on every issue. It by no means says this is what they will do whatever direction the wind blows the balloon.

In the above quotes (selected BTW) Bush was saying that if an illegal was here already working and the business would sponsor them then they should be allow to work here if the business sponsored them. This is the only practical approach anyone could take because there is no way any gov't can round up millions of people and send them back to wherever they came from. It ain't never gonna happen no matter how much money was thrown at the problem.

Bush is looking at this issue from a realistic position and he knows as well as anybody the "workers" will keep comming over the border no matter what we do, so it is best to control it somehow.

Look at some facts on this issue:

We need the workers but they are draining our health care, police, and social security systems so why not change the system to make them here legally so they can GO BACK to where they came from.

How much TAX money do you think is under the table because businesses, restaurants, hotels etc. don't report on their illegal workers? In the real world we all know there are billions and billions of tax dollars that are never collected because the illegals are paid in cash. They'll even work overtime most of the time without time and a half if they get paid cash "tax free". The businesses are happy to go along because they don't have to pay the health care, payroll and social security taxes !

What is the argument against "not" collecting these taxes?

[Elsie]

Look at some facts on this issue:

We need the workers but they are draining our health care, police, and social security systems so why not change the system to make them here legally so they can GO BACK to where they came from.

---

We need the workers but they are draining our health care, police, and social security systems and THESE are the 'Entrenched Welfare State' folks! The mess WE created with our 'War on Poverty' has such a LARGE, subsidized, NON-working bunch of slackers that just keep churning out more, More, MORE babies that learn to take and vote.

At LEAST, the illegals WORK for the most part.

[Rubber Duckie]

And it works pretty good, if you can get the idiots to turn it in when they leave. But since they don't turn it in and INS won't let the Inspectors do outbound inspections, it don't work worth a damn.

Now that you mention it, every country I've flown out of except the U.S. inspects the passports and claims or cancels the visa documents. The only other exception is Japan, where I have a long-term residence and multiple re-entry permit.

If you are checking in for an outbound flight from the U.S., the only people who will ever inspect your passport are the airline employees, because the airline can get stuck to provide a return flight if they let someone board without a valid visa to the country of destination.

Border controls in the U.S. remain a farce even after 9-11.

[Bernard]

But big business can also realize that if you move the work to where the cheap labor is, you don't have American poverty activists talking about the workers' living conditions, etc. Remember how Michael Jordan skated on where his shoes were made?

The slowdown in the economy can help reduce the need to hire illegals - the only real need is in the industries that are specifically tied to a location - resturants, hotels, etc. If the work involves manufacturing, the facility can be placed anywhere.

[sarcasm]

On a major immigration issue, Bush said he was hopeful the United States and Mexico will reach an agreement by early September that would pave the way to legalize the status of up to 3 million Mexicans and ``serve as a precedent for other nationalities.

[AMDG&BVMH]

And write to companies (like Tyson) who hire illegals and tell them you're going to buy Perdue

I agree with your philosophy. I call it "voting with your dollars." We are "buying" what the future USA will look like with our shopping as much as with our votes -- prob. more. I abhor Tyson, but I buy local farm chickens instead of Perdue . . .

[willa]

I have some simple solutions that would save money. You don't need the latest technology at a high price to solve every problem. The problem with the biometric thing is that we'd accept it for the aliens but I fear it would then be a quick jump to use it on everybody.

1. Fine people who hire illegals HEFTY penalties.

2. No welfare whatsover in ANY form to aliens. Stop the instant citizenship on babies born here.

Take away the reason to live here illegaly.

3. NO visas to nationals from terrorist nations.

4. Fire officials who are turning a blind eye. Clean out these agencies.

By instituting these things enough man power will be freed up to go after the rest.

I heard that Georgia was trying to pass legislation to allow ILLEGAL aliens to obtain drivers lisences. Now do you really think that our problem is a lack of biometric tracking technology?

[sam_paine]

Thomas Chittum's Civil War II is joke. I should know, I was suckered into buying/reading it. Written on a junior high level....illustrated on a grade school level.

The subject matter is fertile for a serious treatise....which Chittum can't deliver. As we say in the south, "Bless his heart."

[sam_paine]

Why hasn't anyone on this thread offered a slippery slope argument?

Or is that the administration's strategery?

We'll create the monstrous database for just the bad illegals that everyone hates, then we'll show that the "citizen loophole" needs to be patched, and then we'll flip the switch to universal biometrics for everybody in the US, "for the children's safety."

[Freebird Forever]

Anyone else see a connection here?

Implant Set For Human Trials

[eno_]

The political payoff in this that it will prevent the Democrats from using illegal aliens to steal elections. He might as well drop the hydrogen bomb on them. THIS IS BIG.

George W. Bush is the smartest Republican in modern times.

[Native American Female Vet]

And that would not be hard to do using or amending just a little of the Patriot Act's Title V-Removing Obstacles to Investigating Terrorism Sec. 503 DNA Identification of Terrorists and Other Violent Offenders

[Dialup Llama]

>This is a major, expensive program. Huge database, awesome computer power. Lots of new bureaucrats to run the system, and many midlevel managers. Many court challenges by ACLU and other ambulance chasers.

Which is more expensive? To have this system or not? Finally someone got the policy correct. Instead of having illegals run unchecked and inconviencing the citizens, we track our visitors and newcomers.

[Dialup Llama]

>We need the workers but they are draining our health care, police, and social security

That is the difference between 'What is seen and unseen.' Business sees the cheap labor and that is enough. The fact that someone else pays the social costs is of no concern to them.

[AMMON-CENTRIST]

There should be NO tracking system!

[concerned about politics]

Dream on, it isn't going to happen. Big business wants massive immigration so they can get lots and lots of cheap labor.

On the contrary, I think big unions and the dumocrap party want voters more than business want cheap labor. They end up being carried by union thugs anyway! "Do as we say, or we'll turn you in."

[concerned about politics]

Many court challenges by ACLU and other ambulance chasers.

When these freaks show up on the scene, we know Bush is doing what's right.
When the Marxists scream - It's a good thing.

[FITZ]

I don't know how they can track them but I think when a person comes over on a student visa and then never actually attends classes, there should be something done about them. Same for all those overstayed tourist visas. Besides the Middle Eastern terrorists we have people like the Railroad serial killer who came over to murder Americans just for the fun of it and he freely came back and forth over the border at whim.

[verboten]

"None of us ever dreamt that we'd have a two-front war to fight -- one overseas and one at home," Bush said after touring a Coast Guard cutter here.

Whew George, I love the honesty. Nope, our military does not defend us, rather the billions of dollars we are forced to pay are to make war overseas, and occupy territory so that governments will be friendly to us and know that we can mobilize on their land in a heartbeat should they break bad, all for the benefit of cheap natural resources and labor. The military is for businessmen, not defending us Americans. If Americans want to defend themselves make sure you are armed as the Swiss do.

This system is crap. Tracking immigrants is the slipery slope to tracking citizens. Actually, I would think that is the sole purpose. The government has been lying about getting tough on illegals for decades. But there is no money to be made in harassing illegals as they will flee rather then stick around to be imprisoned and have their property confiscated, or tied up paying for a legal defense. This is just window dressing for tracking citizens. Bush is looking to expand government like Clinton never dreamed of.