Posted on 12/08/2001 9:04:24 AM PST by fish hawk
I pray for you Valerie. Your belief system is called Preterism.
Preterism was started by a Jesuit during the Counter-Reformation.
"Preterism" was first founded by a Jesuit priest back in 1554 to 1613AD,
to counter argue the problem the Church was having over the scripture on Babylon, but the
priest,"Luis De Alcazar", after writing the 900 page study, died at the young age of 49
I believe, and the work was dropped.Google search produced
http://www.calacreek.com/religious/lrkhfp.html
Synopsis of Preterism. Since the Antichrist had been fulfilled in the past, it could not be the
Papacy.
Summary of the Fallacies of Preterism.
Preterism is an expedient designed to shield Rome.
Preterism violates the principle of consistent symbolism.
Preterism glorifies the Papacy by ignoring the actualities.
Preterism denies the elemental principle of Bible prophecy.
Preterism, like futurism, leaves an explained gap.
Preterism offers no adequate fulfillments.
Preterism cannot be correct if Futurism is correct.
or from http://www.e-historicist.com/DefiningTerms/preterist.html
Preterists are committed to the view that the majority of the prophecies
of the book of Daniel have already been fulfilled and therefore no
significance for the present day. (Shea 25.) The Preterist view of
prophetic interpretation was developed by Luis de Alcazar
(1554-1613), also as part of the Counter Reformation. It was
developed to take the heat off the Pope, who was feeling some
discomfort from the Reformers' talk that the Papacy was the Antichrist.
The preterist view of apocalyptic prophecies and their time elements
essentially leaves the whole Christian era, with the exception of a very
small initial fraction, without any direct historical or prophetic evaluation
by God upon the course of that history. (Shea 56.) Preterism claims
that the apocalyptic prophecies, especially those dealing with the
Antichrist, were fulfilled before the Papacy ever ruled Rome. Since they
were already fulfilled, the prophecies could not apply to the Papacy.
The Preterist view ignores the fact that within the Old Testament itself is
the foundation of prophetic interpretation and this foundation produces
a broader view of God's interaction with human history.
The Counter-Reformation developed a new system of prophetic
interpretation that came to be known as preterism. This method was
developed by a Spanish Jesuit named Luis de Alcazar (died 1613).
According to him, the prophecies of Revelation were fulfilled during the
first six centuries of the Christian Era. He identified Nero with the
antichrist (ibid., vol. 2, pp. 506–508). Preterism was later adopted by
many Protestants and has become today the prevailing method of
prophetic interpretation among religious scholars in general. According
to them, Daniel deals with events that took place during the time of the
Maccabbeans, and Revelation deals with the situation of the church
during the time of John.
or The Early Church Was Futurist In Its Prophetic Outlook
Tehillim (Psalm) 119:105 Your Word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.
XeniaSt truth@YeshuaHaMashiach
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
a more accurate interpretation of this in the Greek is "these things which must rapidly come to pass" meaning once it gets started it will come to pass in a short amount of time. preterists are way off the mark.
The country should be in great shape since it still will probably have 99% of the House and Senate members still here.
Plus Jesse "the jock knock 'em up" Jackson and the liberal press.
Not as long as you will have to wait for your rapture to occur. And really makes you think that you are one of the 144,000 lucky ones?
The Latin equivalent of agnostic is ignoramous.
Yes but history repeats itself. Whether it is good or evil, surviving and living the day in the end becomes the motto. Conflict is inevitable because good has to constantly coexist with the demagoguery of evil, which, ironicaly, obtains most of its political capital through a democratic "live the day" order instead of sacrifice for sake of righting the wrong done to killed victims, children or the elderly - who cannot vote nor do much to help good gain proper political capital.
THe only way for good not to bleed political capital indefinitely is through "revenge" against evil - destroying evil's existence and assets in a bloody war so that evil cannot exist to impose its reckless but popular utopia of covet. Hence good is chained also to existence, but only when evil forces good to fight back because evil has democraticaly obtained good's political capital completely away - enslaved.
In the end good often turns deadlier than evil. Indeed, good must destroy evil but has little covet for all the assets of evil - even if to continue the work of righting the wrongs. In fact evil is most preserving of present implements as it would rather keep slaves alive. While good would rather abolish evil altogether. So good is a 'utopia' of justice for the dead, always victimized by the utopia of evil's realistic demagoguery, ultimately doing much more than revenge but taking over completely.
Again, this does not prevent evil's demagoguery of covet of the rich's assets in the name of the children and the handicaped. After all, taking assets is not the main goal of good, seeking political clout for justice is. Being good, rich and prosperous is not evil, they only are assets that would undermine evil in the future if evil failed to acquire them.
My conclusion is that Revelation is most valid indeed because it is not progressist prophecy but repenting regression analysing prophecy. It is history and a rough plan of history's repeat. Whether the case concerned are a single child or a whole nation, Revelation is about God's grand and necessary revenge for His vindication of political capital earned through righteousness and justice, and not obsene democratic demagoguery.
Right fool. You argue way Johns comments when these things occur, saying Gods time is not our time. Then in the same breath, you completely accept a literal six day creation in Genesis as opposed to a metaphor. Im astonished at your flexibility. Certainly cant call you rigid.
1. Buy a gun.
2. Join a militia.
3. Complain loudly if someone wants your thumbprint as a precondition for a car rental.
Some scholars contend that when Zeke 38-39 mention "and those who dwell safely in the coastlands" may be refering to the US. Kind of a stretch, but provocative nevertheless.
Oh contrare!! Any time you see anything about the Lion and the young lions thereof (that includes America). The UK is the Lion (and the UK consists of England, Wales, New Zealand, Australia, Canada); altogether much larger than the U.S. However, we are an offshoot of the UK (primarily), even though many of our founding families came from france and Spain.
In the war called Desert Storm, the Bible clearly says that a consortium of nations consisting of the young Lions and all their bands (which means all our allies), will come as a whirlwind and destroy Babylon (Iraq). Well, the Hebrew word for whirlwind is "Desert Storm".
If we are not mentioned perse' in the Book of Revelation, it's not because we don't have a part to play. Our part began in Genesis 12 - God said, "I will bless those who bless you". God was speaking to Abraham (or Israel). This has always been our part and is primarily why we support Israel so strongly - and it is the real reason that America prospers so much. Our military support of Israel will continue, whether or not it says those exact words in the Book of Revelation.
If you're trying to say America is down the drain, you're sadly mistaken. Just who do you think will bring in the final harvest before Jesus returns?? The Muslims?? The Hindu's. When GOD meets with China and Russia in the Valley of Megiddo and totally aniliates their armies in defense of Israel - who do you think will be watching the war on TV - the whole world. When the whole world gets a look at GOD in action, they will be running to any building which has the word "church" on it and asking you, "Do you know THIS GOD"?. Only in America and Western civilations (where there is Christianity) will WE KNOW who this GOD is. That will be God's final harvest of souls before Jesus returns!!
To suppose America has no part in prophecy is foolishness. Go to www.billyebrim.org and check out what is really happening with Israel. Billye Brim has traveled to Israel for years, and speaks Hebrew. She has a book called, "The Jews, the Nations, and the Church". The book is facinating reading, and explains what each group of people will be doing during these end times. And ... the exciting part is, if you are a born-again Christian, you are the "church".
Cross-referencing that passage with Daniel 11:30 (which while partially fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes, I think will also be fulfilled point-for-point by the Man of Sin), we may also be seen here as the Kittim that sends her ships to warn off the Antichrist from his second campaign in the Middle-east. Kittim, according to Josephus, was used in a general sense to refer to any land west and across the sea from Israel.
From these two passages, I believe that just prior to the Abomination of Desolation, the U.S. will object to the Man of Sin starting a second Middle-eastern war, sending a fleet as a show of force and siding with Britain, Saudi Arabia (Sheba) and Yemen (Dedan). The Man of Sin will pull back to Jerusalem, where he will have his army set himself up as the Abomination of Desolation in the Temple.
That's just my particular prophetic model, of course, and there are any number of people who will disagree with it. Do your own studying. Don't worry if there are parts that you're not sure of; just make sure that you know what the Bible actually says so that when things do start happening, even if they happen in an unexpected way, you'll recognize them.
P.S. Some people also see the U.S. in Isaiah 18, but you have to get much further into the original Hebrew than I want to today in order to demonstrate that possibility.
Yours in Truth,
Thats not the United States, nor was it ever. That refers singularly to the nation of Israel.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.