Posted on 11/08/2007 8:34:00 AM PST by Captain Kirk
We have insulted God at the highest level of our government. Then, we say, "Why does this happen?" It is happening because God Almighty is lifting His protection from us.
Once that protection is gone, we are vulnerable because we are a free society.
(Excerpt) Read more at patrobertson.com ...
Let me get this Straight.
Pat says that we deserved 9/11 and now we deserve Rudy, the President of 9/11.
Is there really any difference between what Pat Robertson says and the followers of Fred Phelps?
I watched his 700 club show once. He was healing people all across the country right from his TV studio chair. Then he asked us all to help and send him money. The man is going to hell for sure.
So the way American can regain the Almighty's protection, Pat Robertson, is to endorse an open borders, pro-abortion, cross dressing, gay loving gun grabber to lead our nation?
Do you care to address the substance of Pat Robertson’s article itself?
Don't ask why did it happen. It happened because people are evil. It also happened because God is lifting His protection from this nation and we must pray and ask Him for revival so that once again we will be His people, the planting of His righteousness, so that He will come to our defense and protect us as a nation. That is what I want to see and why we say we must have revival.
I think what Robertson intends to say (or should have intended if not) is that it's irrational for our nation to reject God and then expect God's protection of that nation. As for 911 specifically, as Robertson says, people are evil, and it was evil people who did 911.
I’m no Robertson apologist either, and I believe that you said what (I also hope) he intended to say, better than he did.
Are you proud of what your question says about you?
Nice answer to the question: “Why did Christian Coalition fold up and die?”
O.K. Kirk. Here’s a short quiz for you:
(1)Do you believe that this nation is blessed of God?
(2)Do you think we have been spared from excess blight and given excess blessing at the hand of God?
[I think most Freepers would answer both with a definite YES!]
(3)How long do YOU think God will continue to extend His blessings upon us, as a nation, while we continue to stick our finger in His eye by kicking all vestiges of the Bible out of our culture, killing our babies, and exalting perversions?
Of course, if the article was really so confusing (to Robertson), he could have pulled it from his website long ago and/or included a clarification.
Well summed up. Yes, that is what Pat Robertson said.
Are you saying God killed innocent people, including children, because we deserved it?
Where in this article was the word “deserved” used? Or is this what you said?
I agree, he should clarify...although, given his track record, I don't know that he'd end up clearing anything up.
Of course there is a difference: Robertson offers a reasoned analysis of the situation while Phelps attacks people in their grief. Phelps is reprehensible in his actions since his sole purpose is to offend.
Robertson and his church have seemed vague, to say the least, on chemical and surgical abortion. I think abortion is a black and white doctrinal matter to the Catholic christian church, only. At least that is what I have observed.
In case he hasn't studied the matter, the 'evil' people in this country comprise but a small percentage of the population. If one of his kids commits murder, is he going to kill his whole family?
Yes, Pat, evil has been committed against us here and there, and we are dealing with it. It can just as easily be said that God is using us to punish the terrorists. Seems no one else is, so stand down and STFU!
No, and neither did Robertson. Why do you put words in the mouths of other people? Robertson clearly said that evil people killed innocent victims on 911. I believe him to be correct. Robertson also contends that God withdrew his protection from this land allowing this atrocity to occur. I believe that this is clearly possible.
Why don't you answer at least my first two questions so that everyone will see where YOU stand on the issue of divine providence.
Personally I believe Pat was on to something when he made the statement about God might be looking away from America.
Certainly while the al Queida was planning the attack on the Twin Towers Bill Clinton was not under the Oval Office Desk praying with Monica Lewinsky asking God for mercy on this wicked San Fransicko culture.
As for Ron Paul and the Paulistinians running their infatada against the Republican Party, in my book, is not supportable by sane, intelligent thinking citizens.
Why would I want to support anyone who's views of the American government and foreign policy more closely match those of Kook Fringe Nut Case Rosie O’Donnell.
As a red state wannabe, Hunter Thompson is my choice for candidates and they are the ones getting my donations.
Why did you excerpt all but a couple lines from Pat’s article? He had a lot more to say.
Well considering they both pretty much blames the ways of America and not the actual terrorists for the attacks, I think my question is quite logical.
Having read the article, and not being evangelical, born-again, a VV or SC, and probably being a complete heathen who nonetheless has been occasionally curious about Robertson, here’s my read/interpretation of his message:
Any nation that cultivates self-hatred, self-deception, and disrespect for it’s own founding traditions, is a nation on the road to suicide. It can expect visits from Evil with increasing frequency, if only to hasten its self-destruction.
Even the VVs and SCs don’t seem to appreciate the actual source of Western Christian civilization, which is Jerusalem.
I think Billy Graham's wife once said that if God did not punish America, He should apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.
You diminish the vile, despicable Phelps by equating him to Robertson, just because you disagree with him. Is that really your intent?
Yes, Robertson and his followers have never protested at the funeral of a soldier.
I don’t think God will be apologizing to anyone, for His punishment fell on Christ at the cross, resulting in the ability to forgive and justify those who repent.
That's a cute line, but I believe that God deals with individuals and not with groups anymore. Groups punish themselves, as do countries. Something about we get the kind of government we deserve. That's pretty close. If our nation is cut asunder after all said and done, I'll re-consider the value of Mrs. Graham's admonition.
I wasnt talking about physical actions. I know Robertson never did that and never would. But to blame Americans and their actions for the terrorist attacks is irresponsible at the very least. It’s like some loons saying the California wildfires were Gods doing because California is such a freak of a state when the fires were set by a dingbat playing with matches.
Actually, I find the Biblical view, and Robertson & Mrs. Graham, rather persuasive. Looking around, I see many instances of innocent people suffering from the disastrous effects of other people’s sins (abortion would be just one example). The country is in big trouble on many fronts, despite the fact that many of its people are pretty righteous (like most here on FR). FR polls show that most of us favor Hunter or Thompson, but we are likely to be stuck with a RINO anyway. Many people try to tinker with politics to solve national ills, but it doesn’t seem to work, because our culture has become so corrupt, spoiled, lazy, and materialistic. Too many people are happy being on the take from government, enjoying cheap goods from China, etc. Our heroic military is sacrificing for the common good, but too many Americans at home are wallowing in junk like reality TV, trash like rap music, and immorality of various kinds. If your take the Bible seriously at all, God is not pleased with America, and we will all suffer as a result.
IMHO, God has not abandoned America, but many in America has abandoned Him. And because of that, natural/supernatural (whatever you want to call it) consequences have occurred.
To clarify: are you saying that "America is to blame for 911"?
I’m not really sure what Robertson’s motivations are, but sometimes he just isn’t dealing with a full deck.
America is its people, not the government. All we can do is vote the suckers out of office. Unless we're supposed to shoot 'em out of office, but I doubt that. We have fulfilled our duty when we vote and express our opposition to what our congress is doing wrong. What more can anyone expect?
If crooks, thieves and bullies take over our government by stealth, how can the people be responsible for that? Except for the enablers, of course. And what justice is there to punish the innocent for something they didn't cause, nor have power to correct?
Yes, back in pre-Christian days it was groups as well as individuals that were punished for what some or most of them did wrong, even tho the innocent were part of the group.
As I said, I don't believe that's the way it's done anymore. If God were to punish the nation for allowing the killing of millions of babies a year, He would have done it long ago, at least to prevent the continuance of pain and terror in the bodies and minds of the unborn.
In group punishment, it's too easy to hide behind someone else or blame the other and act like a martyr. In a face to face day of reckoning with God, there is no place to hide. No one else around to blame.
Which is more just?
Our degradation of responsibilites, our degradation of disciplines, our degradation of morals, and degradation of civility towards one another have left us ripe for attacks by the fanatics. Abandoning God has lead us to the degradatation of our society, which resulted in putting our guard down, because we were too consumed about ourselves. I'm not saying this is justification for our being attacked, but it sure seems like evil looked for an opening and it found it.
You get no arguments from me on this point. He should (or could at best) simply say that it's possible, or even likely...but he can't say definitively because he can't speak for God.
In case he hasn't studied the matter, the 'evil' people in this country comprise but a small percentage of the population. If one of his kids commits murder, is he going to kill his whole family?
The entire nation accepts abominations such as abortion as the law of the land. It's not irrational to consider God's protective hand being lifted from the whole nation as a possibility. Ultimately, we will all stand before God and be judged individually...so there will be justice, ultimate justice.
I think it's more correct to say that we accept the principles and the mechanics of the rule of law, though not what some of those laws are, for the laws are subject to change and the rule of law isn't. Some believe that abortion is okay, regardless of whether it's legal or not. Some believe abortion is not okay, regardless of whether it's legal or not. Therefore, I don't think you can say that the entire nation accepts abortion, whether it's legal or not. Most FReepers would not want to be included in 'the entire nation.' And I don't think you would either.
I agree with your final point.
On a worldly level, consider that many have posted here on FR that it's apparently going to take a bloodbath by terrorists in this country to drive the multicultural, PC, treasonous Left out of influence in this country? Sometimes a country might have to go through the fire before it wakes from its hedonistic stupor. Lots of innocent people, people who were not deluded, but saw the danger, will suffer in the process. That's just the way the world works, I'm afraid.
As for voting an expressing opposition being enough, I think the record shows that is not enough. The almost complete abandonment of the academic and intellectual arena to the Left is the reason we keep going downhill. Aren't there any conservatives with enough money to found schools, or buy media outlets? No conservative should vote, then go home to business as usual, leaving his kids in public schools, or watching junk on TV, and not expect disaster sooner or later. It's a cultural war, not just a political one,.
I gotta admit, Pat Robertson must have PO’d God pretty bad to have been stricken so severely with this mental deterioration. Fess up Pat, I want all the details.
Give it up, Pete.
Robertson is a well respected Christian leader who makes political statements that people are free to disagree with.
Phelps, on the other hand, is a vile, despicable persecutor of Christianity, disguised as a Christian and you fell for it.
Thank you for your reply. I’m sure we are using the same equation, only the value of some of the the variables differ.
I never fell for any of his crap. Sorry you cant see that blaming the ways of others instead of the actual person who commits the act is wrong, no matter how well respected that person is.
Another intellectually dishonest discussion, sigh.
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