Choose this day who you will serve

Bible Fragrances website ^ | Unknown | John Gronley

[fortheDeclaration]

There is no reason why a sovereign God could not choose to allow His rational creatures to make a choice either for or against Him. There is every reason to believe that He does not.

There is?

I have yet to see any Biblical evidence of it.

You have yet, Ed, to explain to me why one person believes and another does not.

I told you that some men fear God and others do not.

That 'fear' of God leads men to respond to the Revelation given to him (Psa.19, Rom.1) and to respond to God's Gospel message.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and is common sense which God has given to all men.

Now, you give me an objective reason why someone is saved in your system?

You argue continually for equal opportunity for all men when such a thing CLEARLY DOES NOT EXIST! Men die every day having never heard the Gospel, yet you say they are justly condemned for making a choice they were never presented with in the first place. You believe in a God who is active in the world, yet He could not be for fear of affecting someone's 'free decision' for or against Him. You decry the 'secret will fo God' while proclaiming and praising the secret will of man. You deny the Lord and Creator of All the very autonomy that you grant His creation: the ability to do as He pleases.

Could you please shorten the rhetoric?

God does reveal Himself to all men (Psa.19, Rom.1) and on the basis of that response, further revelation is then given.

God is only responsible for giving mankind enough revelation to make a decision, which is what fairness dictates.

Those who received less revelation will be judged for the little they received and those who received more, for the more they had to reject (like the Jew-Rom.2)

God is fair, and wants all men to be saved and has given every man to come to him if mankind responds to the initial revelation given by God to him.

In fact, God commands all men to repent (Acts.17:30)

If things operate as you say, then Satan will be laughing and bragging all the way to the Lake because he will have shown himself much more attractive and able to garner praise than the Lord Himself.

Yes, and that will be the one pleasure that Satan will get, from deceiving mankind.

So, I guess you never sin and choose for Satan?

You don't succumb to the temptations that Satan offers against God?

You Calvinists rail against the 'perfectionism' of the Arminians but in theory advocate the same thing.

[fortheDeclaration]

In your system, God is either a respector of persons (impossible) or arbitrary (also impossible), thus, unconditional election is impossible and a blasphmy against God's very character. Wait...what about the secret counsel of God, Ed? You draw a false conclusion because you limit the possible premises to two at the exclusion of the very one to which the Calvinists hold: that God elected according to His good purpose, the nature of which, while unknown to us, is nevertheless not arbitrary but purposed on something other than a condition which we meet.

LOL!

So, now you are going to make the appeal to the secret counsel of God!

The very thing that the Calvinist Cabal railed against me for bringing up now does become your final line of defense.

The problem with the secret counsel defense, is that it must reject clear scripture, hence the appeal to it!

Thus, you are left with only two conclusions, scripture is not telling us the truth, or your system is built on a flawed, unscriptural premise.

As for the 'secret counsel' defense against God being arbitrary, it is a non-defense, since it leaves you defending a mystical system, one that you assume certain things about God's choices, but you cannot prove from scripture.

The Secret Counsel defense' is simply pleading 'no contest' and throwing yourself on the 'mercy' of the court hoping no one traces your system to its 'logical' conclusion-mysticism

[fortheDeclaration]

This is my position. It is God who is Sovereign, and that absolutely. Nothing happens that is not exactly as He has ordained it. It is He that directs, decrees, and declares, and it is His Creation that obeys. Prove that statement wrong, and we'll proceed from there.

So, when man sins he is really obeying God and not disobeying Him?

So, Adam really did God's will when he sinned and disobeyed Him?

God is really responsible for all evil in the world since Satan is only obeying what God decreed?

You better stick some permissive will in there, that God is allowing acts to occur that He knew would happen but did not want to happen but allowed anyway.

That is God's sovereignty, to allow man to resist Him as he does when he rejects Christ as saviour (Acts.7:51) and sins after salvation, as we all do.

God is in total control, 'knowing the end from the beginning' but has decided to give rational creatures decision making ability, even if it goes against what God would otherwise want.(Matt.23:37)Ye would not