Posted on 07/16/2003 4:00:43 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you for scriptural support again, PM. You're prejudicing the argument by referring to the victims as "so-called" heretics. If they were genuine heretics, would you still consider their executions to be a "blasphemous act"?
Chapter & verse, please.
What evidence do you have that Calvin was actually damned, since as you point out only God knows his heart?
Is this a Servetus thread or yet another anti-LDS thread?
Special orders are always welcome.
Far from avoidance, I just posted this.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Yes. (Would you put most of the world's population to death? Who is to decide that people of your persuasion should be exempt from this genocide?)
Main Entry: blas·phe·my
Date: 13th century
1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity [i.e., sitting in judgment on another's salvation (and then showing neither justice nor mercy)]
2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable
If pagan Rome is to be condemned for putting Christians to death because they did not believe the right thing, it is equally wrong, or worse, for professing Christians to do so, particularly in the name of God. It shows that they have apostatized from true Christianity.
Saying what you think about a theological concept is not a crime worthy of death. The most a church should do with someone who persists in teaching false doctrine is withdraw membership.
But in order to know what false doctrine is, you need to be led by true and living prophets and apostles of Jesus Christ, who can unfold the Scriptures to your understanding -- not relying on centuries of tradition, theologians, and scholars, during which many doctrines of men have crept in.
Those doctrines of men should never have been riveted upon the minds of the people by putting to death Bible-believing Christians who did not subscribe to them. The teachings of the Bible were not at issue, but their private interpretation.
How to deal with false teachers: Meekness
King James Version: Tit 3:10 A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject;
John Calvin Version: Tit 3:10 A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject -- exterminate;
Saying what you think about a theological concept is not a crime worthy of death. The most a church should do with someone who persists in teaching false doctrine is withdraw membership.
But in order to know what false doctrine is, you need to be led by true and living prophets and apostles of Jesus Christ, who can unfold the Scriptures to your understanding -- not relying on centuries of tradition, theologians, and scholars, during which many doctrines of men have crept in.
Tell that to Brighem Young.
There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world. ....I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God....It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit... (President Brigham Young, Sept. 21, 1856, Deseret News, page 235; very similar to Journal of Discourses 4:53-54).
Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, and put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified, and they would atone for their sins, and be received into the kingdom of God. I would at once do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands. (President Brigham Young, March 16, 1856, Journal of Discourses, 3:247).
I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance (in the last resurrection there will be) if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the devil, until our elder brother Jesus Christ raises them up--conquers death, hell, and the grave. I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them. (President Brigham Young, February 8, 1857, Journal of Discourses, 4:220)
John Calvin Version: Tit 3:10 A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject -- exterminate;
Seems you and Marlowe have alot in common..
Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
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