Posted on 07/01/2002 6:50:15 AM PDT by Revelation 911
" The "Sovereign drug, Arminianism," which said the Jesuit, "we (i.e. we Papists) have planted" in England, did indeed bid fair "to purge our Protestant Church effectually. How merrily Popery and Arminianism, at that time, danced hand in hand, may be learned from Tindal: "The churches were adorned with paintings, images, altar-pieces, & etc. and, instead of communion tables, alters were set up, and bowings to them and the sacramental elements enjoined. The predestinarian doctrines were forbid, not only to be preached, but to be printed; and the Arminian sense of the Articles was encouraged and propagated."Arminianism: The Road to Rome
The following is an article comprised of excerpts from "The Nature and Danger of Heresies" by Obadiah Sedgwick, published by Soli Deo Gloria Publications.
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Pascal is the author of the initial quote only.
John Calvin was a Frenchman. He was born on July 10, 1509, in Picardy at Noyon, France. His family was Roman Catholic and his father worked for the local Roman Catholic bishops managing the business affairs of the cathedral.
When 14 years old, Calvin went to Paris where he began to prepare for the priesthood by studying logic, philosophy and Latin. After completing his course of study he transferred to the College of Montaigu, a Seminary for the training of priests. Although he was not yet admitted into priest's orders, he became a member of the clergy.
Robert Olivetan, a cousin of Calvin, and a Waldensian pastor, witnessed to Calvin, but Calvin, an indoctrinated Roman Catholic strenuously resisted the gospel. His cousin gave Calvin a Bible and urged him to study it. After three years of conviction Calvin testified, "When I was the obstinate slave of the superstition of popery and it seemed impossible to drag me out of the deep mire, God by a sudden conversion subdued me, and made my heart more obedient to His Word."
He then began to study civil law where he was taught, "it is the magistrate's duty to punish offenses against religion as well as crimes against the state. What! Shall we hang a thief who robs us of heaven?"
He abandoned the study of law and began studying God's Word. He began preaching in secret meetings at Bourges, Paris. In 1536, he was appointed pastor and professor at Geneva.
The most celebrated of all Calvin's writings is the Institution of .the Christian Religion. It is said to be "the first theological and literary monument of the French Reformation." The issue of the day was popery and works, as opposed to salvation through faith in the finished work of Christ. As a result the Institution gave accurate information about the Trinity and the Deity of Christ, but is totally devoid of correct teaching on baptism, distinction between Israel and the Church, the millennium and the second coming of Christ.
In 1538, Calvin fled Geneva. Lorraine Boettner gives the reason (Predestination, pg.408): "Due to an attempt of Calvin and Farel to enforce a too severe system of discipline in Geneva, it became necessary for them to leave the city temporarily." Calvin went to Strassburg, Germany, where he ministered to French refugees until his return to Geneva in 1541. Calvin, influenced by his Roman Catholic education, preached a church-state set up. He, like the other Reformers, sought to reform the Roman Catholic position of State controlled Church, baptism and eschatology. Under the influence of John Knox, who studied under Calvin, the Presbyterian Church became the State Church of Scotland in 1592.
Laurence Vance in his book The Other Side of Calvinism (page 37) quotes Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church to illustrate the extent Calvin went to in using the state to fulfil his wishes." Calvin was a firm believer in a united Church and State. From 1541 to 1546, fifty- eight people were executed and seventy-six exiled from Geneva. Calvin was consulted in all important affairs of the State, and his advice was usually followed. Press censorship continued in Geneva until the eighteenth century. Attendance at public worship was commanded and watchmen were directed to see that people went to church. Three men who laughed during the sermon were imprisoned for three days. Death sentences were routinely imposed: a girl was beheaded for striking her parents and some were burned for witchcraft. Calvin's theory of a theocracy is professed to be based on the Holy Scriptures, but as Schaff astutely observes: "It is impossible to deny that this kind of legislation savors more of the austerity of old heathen Rome and the Levitical code than of the gospel of Christ, and that the actual exercise of discipline was often petty, pedantic, and unnecessarily severe. The problem with all Calvin's scriptural arguments is that they are exclusively taken from the Old Testament. Which means that if a man is not a Dispensationalist -- he is a heretic."
A specific illustration of Calvin's treatment of those of unorthodox religious views is found in the death of Michael Servetus. Servetus did have unorthodox views of the Trinity. He was not Unitarian. His problem seemed to be in distinguishing between the eternal Son of God and the Son of the eternal God. (Incidentally, the Calvinist writer, A.W. Pink, denied the eternal Sonship of Christ on page 50 of his Exposition of Hebrews.) Servetus held other beliefs Calvin considered unorthodox. He was premillennial. He rejected Calvin's doctrine of predestination. His big "heresy" however was his rejection of infant baptism. In fact, during his trial the marginal notes he had made in Calvin's Institutes against infant baptism, were used against him. He admitted infant baptism was a "diabolical invention and infernal falsehood destructive to Christianity."
Servetus had been imprisoned in Vienna for his blasphemy. According to Miller's Church History, page 1035, Calvin is represented as saying, "If Servetus came to Geneva, and my influence could prevent it, he would not go away alive." Servetus did come. Through Calvin's information to The Magistracy Servetus was put in prison. Calvin submitted 39 accusations against him at the trial. Servetus was sentenced to be burned at the stake. Calvin then entered a "plea for mercy" asking that Servetus have his head chopped off with the sword rather than be burned alive. The real issue was, death by the sword was State execution while burning at the stake was for religious offenders. Calvin wanted a state execution. The sentence stood and Servetus burned. In 1561, Calvin wrote the Marquis Paet, high chamberlain to King of Navarre, "Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels, who stir up the .people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus, the Spaniard." Most of us reading this article would have suffered the same punishment Servetus did had we been living under Calvin's influence.
As a result of poor health and preaching five or six times a week, Calvin died in May, 1564 at the age of fifty-four.
In commenting on Calvin's life Laurence Vance writes (The Other Side of Calvinism, page 43)...
"Calvin is, of course, best remembered for his doctrine of predestination .... The doctrine is not mentioned in the first edition of the Institutes nor is it prominent until after the 1539 edition. It is avoided in his catechism for children. Calvin was attacked for making God an 'arbitrary tyrant.' He even admitted that it was causing 'vast disturbances in the church.' Bullinger wrote to Calvin: 'Believe me, many are displeased with what you say in your Institutes about predestination.' Jewett maintains that Beza had to spend more time defending Calvin's doctrine of predestination than anything else.' The ministers of neighbouring Bern finally sent to Geneva on December 7, 1551, for a 'cessation of discussion' of the predestination issue for 'sake of the tranquility and peace of the church.'"
Calvinism, strangely enough, did not originate with John Calvin. Spurgeon said, "Calvin got his Calvinism from Augustine." Boettner wrote, "Augustine had taught the essentials of the system a thousand years before Calvin was born" (Predestination, page 4).
Just a quick search revealed this statement by Wesley. Doesn't sound to me like he supported Rome at all. Do you have a quote where he says that Rome is just fine and dandy? If not, then retract. (Actually, I disagree with Wesley in his anti-Rome position. There are millions of wonderful Christians among our catholic brothers and sisters, to include priests. AND, as with my OWN United Methodist church, there are also many who don't have a clue.)
13. I will not undertake to defend the accuracy of this definition. I dare not exclude from the Church catholic all those congregations in which any unscriptural doctrines, which cannot be affirmed to be "the pure word of God," are sometimes, yea, frequently preached; neither all those congregations, in which the sacraments are not "duly administered." Certainly if these things are so, the Church of Rome is not so much as a part of the catholic Church; seeing therein neither is "the pure word of God" preached, nor the sacraments "duly administered." Whoever they are that have "one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one God and Father of all," I can easily bear with their holding wrong opinions, yea, and superstitious modes of worship: Nor would I, on these accounts, scruple still to include them within the pale of the catholic Church; neither would I have any objection to receive them, if they desired it, as members of the Church of England.
true to form, no one laughs though LOL
It should also be noted that the annibaptists consider him a founder of sorts, despite the fact he held strident anti-trinitarian beliefs.
I suspect that specifically is what got him killed. The alternative being Calvin wanted him dead for challenging him - buuuuuut, we know thats not the case (sarcasm)
& no one yells) -
What, a religious forum without heated debate? Sounds like heresy to me.
His view was a subtle distinction on the nature of the son.
Calvin hoped to appease Rome in Servetus' death and demonstrate his own orthodoxy.....he did their bidding.
Calvin hoped to appease Rome in Servetus' death and demonstrate his own orthodoxy.....he did their bidding.
x, any subtle distinction is a variant from the truth and eradicates the efficacy of the trinity. To modify just one aspect, (respectfully) throws the organization off balance doesnt it? - minimizing or emphasizing a particular aspect
Servetus claimed Christ the "Son of the eternal God" - Calvin insisted that Christ was the eternal Son - theres a distinction and IMO (again IMO) its huge - Not declaring Chirst "eternal" ultimately eviscerates the trinity.
In our zeal to whack all things calvin (and it is good sport) - we really need to be careful about holding servetus up as a hero, rather a victim of Calvins scriptural vacancy.
Given his trinitarian beliefs, it is no surprise the unitarians consider him a founding father as well.
p.s. - Im not going soft on you x - but I respectfully differ on this, but then again Im a type A - and structure holds appeal, particularly trinitarian
My point is that it DID NOT DESERVE THE DEATH SENTENCE. It probably only required letting him get a little older and wiser.
23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[3] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
George H. Williams the leading scholar of the Radical Reformation says there were three distinct segments of the non-Magisterial Reformation (the Radical Reformation):
[1] The Anabaptists (Hubmaier, Grebel, Simons, Marpeck, etc)
[2] The Spiritualists (Hofmann, Muntzer, Schwenkfeld; the Zwickau Prophets, etc.)
[3] The anti-Trinitarians (Servetus, F. Socinus, L. Socinus et al.)
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The differences between Servetus and the Anabaptists are monumental. Modern Anabaptists look to the Anabaptists not the Spiritualists and anti-trinitarians as their heritage.
"Blessed Assurance - la -la la la -
What do you think the word mortal means? Does it not mean subject to death. Are you saying that all men have "life eternal?" So what's the big deal with verses like the following, if everybody already has eternal life? (What do you call a life that lasts eternally and if doesn't last eternally, it must be moratl.)
Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
You get the idea.
Hank
Im not in disagreement - however his stand against infant baptism holds appeal and is something theyve identified with
Is the "they" modern Anabaptists or Reformation era Anabaptists?
Yeah - but while he included the son, the position was altered - abeit subtley, but destructively
My point is that it DID NOT DESERVE THE DEATH SENTENCE. It probably only required letting him get a little older and wiser.
In a perfect world - but we know differently in Calvinville
You have a man centered , works centered salvation...
You respond by calling me names. Lurkers note these things, you know, and I'm glad they do.
I showed you a Wesley QUOTE where Wesley DENIES Rome. You must show me a contrary one to even continue this line of the discussion.
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