Dr. Hugh Ross and Bart Ehrman: A Christian turned atheist vs. atheist turned Christian

Christian Post ^ | 02/25/2023 | Dan Delzell

[Elsie]

The first thing to come to life from the GOO was plants.

Couldn’t have been animals ‘cause they are either herbivores, omnivores, or carnivores. There was nothing to eat!

therefore plants had to emerge from the goo first
(I wonder what THEY ate?)

When animals finally DID show up, how long did it take before one of them decided to take a bite out of their cousin and think, “Dang that was yummy!”

[daniel1212]

As I've said, the quotes of those who look in order to confirm what they want to believe really don't do anything for me.

It is not about what it does for you, but what it does to your invalid attempt of denial

And to say that this cosmic splatter of matter "follows laws" has it backward. They don't follow laws. They behave as they do, and humans describe it, identify the pattern, and call it a law.

If you jumped off a building (don't) then on your unstoppable way down you might realize why somethings like the "law of gravity" are called that.

It's over. Your attempted argument actually only resulted in further affirmation of the well-evidenced conclusion of a systematically ordered universe, rightly understood, and for the finely turned conditions necessary for intelligent life. Despite your very shortsighted and superficial view.

[A_perfect_lady]

As I've said, these "finally tuned conditions" exist only in the tiniest sliver within the vast range of wildly uninhabitable conditions that prevail throughout the universe. It's the atmospheric equivalent of a stopped clock being right twice a day.

And the quotes you keep flinging up may satisfy you that you are correct because Carl Sagan says so, but I'm sorry, never at any crossroad in my life have I wondered, "Well, what would Carl Sagan do?" And I bet you never did either. So what are his musings to me?

[daniel1212]

As I've said, these "finally tuned conditions" exist only in the tiniest sliver within the vast range of wildly uninhabitable conditions that prevail throughout the universe

And as I've said (but you only see what you want), the uniqueness of these essential irreducibly complex conditions for corporeal intelligent existing here (and would be anywhere) is what "finely tuned" refers to. Which defies such being mere chance. Again, that is what

I'm sorry, never at any crossroad in my life have I wondered, "Well, what would Carl Sagan do?

Which means you should be sorry because you have never at any crossroad in my life have I wondered, "Well, what do those of far greater knowledge on a subject think?

You continue to evidence willful ignorance and recalcitrance like a determined atheist, yet being on a pro-God forum.

[Elsie]

... "finely tuned"...

I don't know if ENTROPY is a law, but it always seems to win.

[Elsie]

It is never seen to run the other direction: to create order from disorder

[A_perfect_lady]

Which defies such being mere chance...

Yeah, a one in 100 billion chance. Happily, there are 100 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, and we're the one. Perfectly within the realm of chance.

[daniel1212]

Yeah, a one in 100 billion chance. Happily, there are 100 billion planets in the Milky Way alone, and we're the one. Perfectly within the realm of chance.

And billions of suns and planets in addition. "Chance" vs. astronomical odds testifying to a creator as the logical alternative. Even if intelligent corporeal life is discovered elsewhere the reality is there simply is not evidence that such could by itself. As said,

“If you equate the probability of the birth of a bacteria cell to chance assembly of its atoms, eternity will not suffice to produce one… Faced with the enormous sum of lucky draws behind the success of the evolutionary game, one may legitimately wonder to what extent this success is actually written into the fabric of the universe.” - Christian de Duve. “A Guided Tour of the Living Cell” (Nobel laureate and organic chemist)

But desperate determined anti-theists are refuse to let reality confuse them. Yet some want to be on a pro-God forum.

[A_perfect_lady]

Lucky draws? Again, you quote people who work backward, starting from "We are here" and then musing in awe how improbable the process was. Like the person who wins a huge Lottery and, because the odds were so great, imagines the universe busily arranging and rearranging events to ensure that they won. When the reality is simply that, sooner or later, someone has to win, and it is who it is.

But if it bothers you that I'm "on a pro-God forum" and arguing with you, the easy fix is to stop responding to me. Don't worry, if you drop it I won't preen myself that I convinced you of anything.

[fishtank]

Well, I’m glad that Hugh Ross can now admit that God can work miracles because he told me a cube that size was impossible.

He need to apply his admission of the miraculous to the global flood, now.

[fishtank]

To the perfect lady, the Fermi Paradox says that if there is other intelligent life in the galaxy, it would be filled with very observable signs of life on other planets.

The galaxy should be full of radio signals from other planets, essentially.

But it’s not.

[A_perfect_lady]

Makes sense to me. Thanks!

[Hebrews 11:6]

As I indicated, the version I related to you has been his consistent stated interpretation for at least four decades. If you believe you heard something different, either:

Hugh misspoke on that occasion, or

Hugh failed to make himself clear on that occasion, or

you misheard, or

you misunderstood.