Posted on 02/25/2023 7:58:10 PM PST by SeekAndFind
RE: Hugh Ross is such a disgrace.
I’m sure a lot of readers of this thread will be interested in reading your reasons as to why you think he is a disgrace.
Will read this in more detail, but looks to be very well reasoned.
I was wondering if God had these choices as well, but seeing as He is perfect, I don’t think that God has a choice.
But - Jesus, being fully man, DID have a choice. And He chose to suffer and die on the cross for us. And what an important choice it was! And we all have important choices to make.
Sounds like some folks from either SLC or Warwick NY has influenced this one.
I see what you did here!
Entropy gets ya every time!
A lot of atheists are fairies.
Dismissing something as a "fairly tale" does not literally mean tales from fairies, but refers to something that is mythical, not warranting belief, which is how antitheists dismiss the Bible. Thus their own faith can be dismissed likewise, as it is also one of faith.
Well said, praise God.
Oops - you are correct. Well, change Jesus to some O.T. guy, but it was amazing to see the bias in the headline when a verse as one word that is slightly different but means the same thing becomes “Proves the Bible is full of errors...”
Dudes, it was tongue in cheek; like Paul writing letters to the churches in KJ English.
Faith in what?
See post 30 above: https://freerepublic.com/focus/religion/4133963/posts?page=30#30
an exceedingly vast, systematically ordered universe, exquisitely finely tuned for life...
Not only is the universe not particularly systematic, (from what I can see, it looks like an explosion in slow motion), it is most definitely not fine tuned for life. If it were, every planet would be inhabited. As it is, they aren't, and even this particular planet is has huge swaths that are uninhabitable.
To put it more simply, let's just look at one factor: temperature. Temperatures in the universe range from -450 to 10,000 degrees. In that huge range, life can only survive in a tiny sliver of it.
Not only is the universe not particularly systematic, (from what I can see, it looks like an explosion in slow motion)
Which is simply a superficial look. The reality is, that rather than randomness being the overall state, the universe exists as an orderly system of orbiting bodies or otherwise predictable paths and in which what is seen as disorder is an aberration. To which even secular minds attest:
“The order of the universe is not an assumption; it’s an observed fact. We detect the light from distant quasars only because the laws of electromagnetism are the same 10 billion light years away as here. The spectra of those quasars are recognizable only because the same chemical elements are present there as here, and because the same laws of quantum mechanics apply. The motion of galaxies around one another follows familiar Newtonian gravity. Gravitational lenses and binary pulsar spin-downs reveal general relativity in the depths of space. We could have lived in a universe with different laws in every province, but we do not. This fact cannot but elicit feelings of reverence and awe.” ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark[Spinoza admirer] Albert Einstein observed, "We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations." , it is most definitely not fine tuned for life. If it were, every planet would be inhabited. As it is, they aren't, and even this particular planet is has huge swaths that are uninhabitable.
Context, rather than ignoring links. What is referenced is earth life, and while there are virtually no places on earth that lack life, and some form of bacteria may yet be found someplace else, the earth, and thus the solar system and galaxy and universe in which it exists, is uniquely fine tuned for the only intelligent natural life we know of. Meanwhile, if you want to belief in aliens based upon craft that defy the known laws of physics, then then at the least you should have no objection to supernatural beings.
The Universe Really Is Fine-Tuned, And Our Existence Is The Proof - https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/12/19/the-universe-really-is-fine-tuned-and-our-existence-is-the-proof/?sh=6ef154444b87
"according to many physicists, the fact that the universe is able to support life depends delicately on various of its fundamental characteristics, notably on the form of the laws of nature, on the values of some constants of nature, and on aspects of the universe’s conditions in its very early stages." https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fine-tuning/ A listing of such follows.A list of 60 aspects is by Ross, cited as regards the above from Ross is https://wng.org/roundups/a-fine-tuned-universe-1617224984 ,
I think if the universe were systematic and built for life, as I said, all the planets (or most) would be inhabited, and our own world would be much more inhabitable than it is. If you look at this mess and see order, good for you, but I just see a hodge-podge, of which one tiny, tiny speck is inhabitable, and only sometimes. The rest of it is freezing cold or blazing hot, or devoid of oxygen or gravity, and... we found a niche. Lucky us.
Absurd, meaning dismissing actual observable science, and basing your superior opinion on a superficial appearance of an hodge-podge explosion of matter while ignoring the orbital and or predictable courses that bodies are, all related to each other to some degree. Remove even one planet from our solar system That collisions happen btwn bodies in their predictable courses is true, but there is a symmetry to the universe that is observable and well attested to.
I think if the universe were systematic and built for life, as I said, all the planets (or most) would be inhabited,
I explained that yet you insist on a scenario that was not conceptually argued for. It is earth life - the only proven intelligent life we know of - that our solar system, and thus the galaxy is finely tuned for, and even the universe as to some degree all are related. There are so many possible variables that are necessary for our intelligent life and so little tolerance that the odds of this happening by chance are simply astronomically astronomical. And the fact that all this complexity is for earth life actually supports the premise of special creation.
But seeing as you dismiss all evidence and insist on your own ignorant perception then why should I argue further? Yet may God grant you "repentance unto the acknowledging of the truth." (2 Timothy 2:25)
As for the odds of our planet having a limited zone that can support intelligent life being "astronomical," funny you should use that word. There are billions of planets out there. If we are one in a billion, there's your odds.
But yes, it's useless to argue. If you want to see patterns, you'll see them, just like people looking up at the stars saw constellations, or clouds that look like bunny rabbits.
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