Posted on 02/13/2022 3:45:04 PM PST by ebb tide
Ping
Tradition? So the writer’s mother was a Pharisee, and the father was a Sadducee? Or was it the other way around?
A lot of year 30 AD thinking coming out.
One of the great ironies of Bergoglio’s papacy in general and his war on the TLM in particular is that it’s had the effect of making the SSPX look like prophets. Frankly, I disagree with their Superior General’s assertion that this was all inevitable. I don’t believe that it had to be this, and I don’t believe that it would have been this way if Ratzinger had stuck it out and reigned these last 9 years. But he didn’t, and the SSPX sees itself as vindicated, They get to wave over to the Ecclesia Dei groups and say, “See? Told ya so. We said that it was all a trap, and it was. We said that they’d shut down the TLM as soon as they could, and they’re doing it.”
He’s right, however, that the Ecclesia Dei groups face a time of choosing. They can drink Bergoglio’s Kool-Aid and opt for institution suicide. Or they can resist and defy him to his face.
Tradition with a capital T. Translating into protestantese it would mean - The Faith which was handed down to us from the apostles.
(I’m aware you don’t agree that it is true, however when a traditional catholic uses the capitalized word “Tradition” that is what they mean.
Actually, we have been explicitly told from the pulpit to NOT say “see I told you so” to the former attendees of the Ecclesia Dei groups who visit or now come to the SSPX chapels.
I think the contradiction in the Ecclesia Dei document itself is evident wherein a “living Tradition” is spoken of. This was and is a novelty and ends in base servility and papal positivism. I also concede that such an encyclical was read by many in the best possible light, but by 1988, the presence of modernism and the language that it uses were well known (at least in the hiearchy of the Church).
I will always grant wide latitude to most Catholics of good will who are trying to do their best in a crappy situation- however I agree with Father Pagliari that once these contradictions were set up within the Church the outcome is/was inevitable (excepting of course the direct intervention of God).
Benedict XVI seems to be an outlier in that he honestly thought he could square the circle and maintain a balance between the Tradional Faith and modernism. If he continued as Pope he likely could have kept things in stasis for a while, but as the Traditional communities grew, at some point the more modernists bishops would become alarmed and have done something to fight back (or maybe that is exactly what happened 🤔).
Well, it’s nice to hear that the SSPX is opting for graciousness on the local level and attempting to dial down the “we told you so” triumphalism. Ultimately, though, that’s what Pagliarani’s comments do boil down to. And I can’t begrudge them bragging rights. They said that X, Y and Z would happen eventually, and now with Bergoglio’s hot war on the TLM those things have happened and are happening, so the victory lap is the SSPX’s. We’ll never know if Benedict’s alternative approach might have worked with if had been given more time and Ratzinger been a more forceful pontiff. What happened happened, so the “what ifs” are consigned to the realm of speculation.
As your people would say “May you have warm words on a cold evening,A full moon on a dark night,And the road downhill all the way to your door”.
Good night!
“Francis Received SSPX Superior General”
https://www.gloria.tv/post/Ltt2jkzfKcdv4VtNJwBN36o9C
Curiouser and curiouser...
It seems that Bergoglio’s near-term strategy is to “quarantine” the TLM within the SSPX. He’s hellbent on ridding regular diocesan parishes of the old Mass.
And now I’ll make a prediction of my own... If and when the TLM is confined solely to the SSPX, Bergoglio or his successor will anathematize them and declare them schismatic.
I think it’s more of a matter of VC II acceptance, in toto, that separates the SSPX from the Ecclesia Dei communities.
I have been to both SSPX and FSSP masses; there are no differences between the two, not even in the sermons.
VC II and its everlasting evil spirit is the sole excuse for Heretic Jorge’s draconian attacks on all who are attached to the TLM.
That “spirit” needs to be killed.
Been there, done that - back to 1988. No big deal.
There will always be a remnant.
I would argue that it is a big deal. The beauty of the post-Summorum Pontificum era was that the TLM was blossoming within regular diocesan parish life. This was and is intolerable to Bergoglio and his minions, and they’re taking it away. I don’t have problem with the SSPX per se, and I think Abp. Lefebvre was a great hero and saint. The SSPX have an important role to play, but it bothers me to think of the TLM confined and quarantined to the SSPX ghetto. And that seems to be Bergoglio’s m.o. Why is he meeting with the SSPX but not the Ecclesia Dei groups? It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s trying to use the SSPX to subsume the Ecclesia Dei groups and the diocesan TLM faithful.
You appear to be ignoring the elephant in the room:
VC II, and its “spirit”.
Oh, he will be meeting with the Ecclesia Dei groups, via his henchmen. And it will be on Ash Wednesday; it's been announced from the pulpit at an FSSP Mass. I doubt the results will be pleasant.
There, I agree; but everything that Bergoglio has said or done has bothered me.
It will be a big deal for traditional catholics, overall; but not the SSPX in particular. That was my point.
But this time around, traditional catholics know better.
Fool us once shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us.
It won't be so easy this time around.
I’m not ignoring the horrific fallout of V2 and the “spirit of V2,” but it was a beautiful thing to see the TLM flourishing in regular diocesan parishes and “the spirit of V2” fading away naturally and becoming utterly irrelevant to a younger generation of Catholics who knew little of it and were utterly uninterested in re-litigating it. Having homes and business in multiple parts of California, I travel a fair amount and saw with my own eyes vibrant TLM parishes growing under FSSP, ICKSP and diocesan clergy. Again, I have nothing against the SSPX but its appeal is limited in a way that the Ecclesia Dei and diocesan parishes are not. And I suspect that’s why Bergoglio seems to overtly favor the SSPX. He wants them to function as a “containment zone.” And that’s rotten, IMO.
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