Posted on 01/20/2021 5:18:18 PM PST by justme4now
That said, the things we see God do and say give us clues as to His wonderful nature. Ergo, it doesn't hurt to speculate if done respectfully. If He wants us to know, He'll probably help along the way.
Answers to your original posted questions can easily be found at these links:
Why did Jesus have to die?
https://www.gotquestions.org/why-Jesus-die.html
Why was Jesus crucified?
https://www.gotquestions.org/why-was-Jesus-crucified.html
Did God sacrifice Himself to Himself to save us from Himself because of a rule He made Himself?
https://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-sacrifice-Himself.html
Why did Jesus have to experience so much suffering?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-suffering.html
One book will give you a thorough and complete explanation - but it is deep and long. If you really want to know the answer, no book ever written I know of explains it better.
The Crucifixion: Understanding the Death of Jesus Christ. Fleming Rutledge
You want n know why? Because if God had made it easy o. His Son, then people would szy”Christ never had to suffer as I am, how could He possibly ly know what I am going through? Its unfair that I have to suffer and He didn’t have to face what I have to.
God came to earth to experience everything we,do so thaymwemcan identifymwithmHimmso,identify with Him so, KNOW what a tremendous sacrifice He made fot us because He truly loved us enough that He refused to shrink from the horrible task ahead of Him. Greater .I’ve hath no man than this, that he lay down His life for another. Had Christ not had to endure suffering, folks would say that He had no idea what suffering is, so of course it was easy for Him to be perfect. Which of course would be a false accusation.
No, Christ’s sa refined for us proves He loved us more tha He loved Himself, because he laid down His life even knowing how horrible that death would be. He a s obedient even in the face of horror, for our sakes He endured this great sacrifice for us
.
Yes but then men would bet to accuse Him off taking the easy way out and accuseHim of not really loving us because it didn’t really cost Him Nything
Not sure I have anything to offer except what your already likely aware of.
He was sent as the Second Adam to redeem mankind from the penalty created by the first Adam, which impuned sin upon mankind.
Consider what that infected blood line created. Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc. Consider the horrific atrocities the first Adam set into gear. In order to redeem man from such horrible sin, it would almost seem to make sense that the penalty would be equally grevious.
When Jesus allowed His Life to be taken, He willingly laid down His Life for us. It was the only manner in which sinful man could be redeemed. He alone is worthy.
When the first Adam fell, satan believed he had God in checkmate. Afterall, how could man be redeemed when the bloodline was now cursed?
Galatians 3:13
King James Version
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Yet, God was not taken back and suddenly feeling defeated. He knows the ending from the beginning.
1’st Peter 1:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Jesus, being without sin, could have lived forever here on this Earth. But willingly He laid down His Life in such painful agony. Perhaps it had to be displayed in such a manner. Not only to fulfill Scripture, but to show the depths of His Love.
John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Just think, all He asks in return is our Faith.
We will spend eternity with God Who loved us this much.
He first arived as a Lamb to the slaughter. But when He returns He will return as Judge. And to make war.
He will return as King of kings and Lord of lords.
Just think, we will rule and reign with Him.
Simply because we returned the very measure of Faith He gave to us.
So you are asking why was God so mean to God?
God did not cause it to happen but He knew what would happen. There is a difference. He decided that humanity was worth it.
Isaiah 53: (the suffering was forordained)
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jesus was so terribly abused because He allowed Himself to be. His agony beforehand in the garden anticipated all the coming torture. He gave Himself completely into the hands of Satan, the Romans and the Jews, all of whom exacted all the price from Him that they could.
Jesus could not hold back anything from them and still have His sacrifice count for everyone. Every bit of his humanity had to be annihilated and burnt up.
For the gold standard of explanations of the true depth of Christ's suffering that day, see this 14-page essay by Dr. Alex Metherell, a physician/engineer.
Knowing the unimaginable pain He endured to redeem us from sin, He willingly paid our debt. A debt so impossible for us to repay.
Yet He was spit upon by the religious leaders and His back was ripped open and laid bare. The beard ripped from His face. Thorns driven into His skull. Nailed to the Cross and in agony struggling to breath.
Yet turning to face the guilty and said, surely this day we shall be together in Paradise.
And His last Words, “It is finished”
The deb t of sin had been paid in full.
This next part has always caused tears to well up in my eyes ever since I first heard it.
When He rturns as King and received as Messiah, He will turn to answer a question posed to Him. And these are the Words He will speak regarding those who torchered Him so greviously:
Zechariah 13:6
King James Version
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Who is able to show such love and forgiveness?
God’s ways are higher than our ways. God’s thoughts are higher than our thoughts. We will never, this side of heaven, understand the answers to your questions. That gap has to be filled in with faith.
I think there is a fine line that weaves its way between meditation, speculation and presumption. We are called to meditate and reflect on questions like the reasons for Christ's passion, and doing so can only lead us to speculate as to God's reasons and purposes. This I think is healthy as long as we recognize it as such (a product of our reflection), and don't presume to fully know all the answers, because as you, aimhigh, have rightfully noted, these things are fully beyond our understanding.
For what it's worth, my thoughts on this matter are that Christ left his apostles with the mandate to go forth and spread the word. I suspect that Christ came during the Roman Empire because this was the earliest point in human history from which His message would ultimately be spread to the ends of the earth by His followers, and as such, he was subject to a Roman execution.
Part of the horror of crucifixion is the prolonged nature of the suffering it inflicts. In order to avoid suffocation the victim must shift his weight onto the nails in his feet (or probably more usually his ankles) so that the ribcage can expand and allow the lungs to breathe, but in doing so this causes excruciating pain in the feet. This pain can only be mildly relieved by suspending one's weight from the pierced wrists, but in doing so, restricts the ability to breath. Typically the victims would find themselves shifting their weight back and forth from their wrists to their ankles for a protracted period before death overcame them.
It is noted in scripture that Christ's legs were not broken. This was typically done to "hurry things along," as after the legs were broken, the victim could no longer push his weight up by shifting his weight to the feet and suffocation set in soon after.
Ping
I think it had more to do with the hearts of the Jewish people. They showed their deep hatred for God. If the Magi knew and the Priests knew because they told Herod, then it was hate toward God. In just 70 years Gods judgment fell on those people and only 70 years ago did they go home. Still in unbelief but back to Israel.
The things you try to see were mans treatment of God. Gods treatment of His Son was done in total darkness. That was the real passion and no one saw it. It was too horrible to be witnessed. When Jesus took the sins of this world. Upon Himself and died for us we will never know how awful.
Read the words to the song “The. Ninety and nine”
“ There were ninety and nine that safely lay
In the shelter of the fold.
But one was out on the hills away,
Far off from the gates of gold.
Away on the mountains wild and bare.
Away from the tender Shepherd’s care.
Away from the tender Shepherd’s care.
Lord, Thou hast here Thy ninety and nine;
Are they not enough for Thee?”
But the Shepherd made answer: This of Mine
Has wandered away from Me;
And although the road be rough and steep,
I go to the desert to find My sheep,
I go to the desert to find My sheep.”
But none of the ransomed ever knew
How deep were the waters crossed;
Nor how dark was the night the Lord passed through
Ere He found His sheep that was lost.
Out in the desert He heard its cry,
Sick and helpless and ready to die;
Sick and helpless and ready to die.
Lord, whence are those blood drops all the way
That mark out the mountain’s track?”
They were shed for one who had gone astray
Ere the Shepherd could bring him back.”
Lord, whence are Thy hands so rent and torn?”
They are pierced tonight by many a thorn;
They are pierced tonight by many a thorn.”
And all through the mountains, thunder riven
And up from the rocky steep,
There arose a glad cry to the gate of Heaven,
Rejoice! I have found My sheep!”
And the angels echoed around the throne,
Rejoice, for the Lord brings back His own!
Rejoice, for the Lord brings back His own!”
“That effort was so cruel that he fell many times on the way to where he would be impaled!”
I doubt I can provide you an answer that will satisfy your intellectual curiosity, but I will point out that your assertion here is not from the Bible.
While it may be true that Jesus stumbled while carrying the cross, that idea does not come from the biblical record. It does say that a man named Simon was forced to carry Christ’s cross for Him, which could indicate He had fallen under the weight of it.
Additionally, I will point out that Christ endured 3 types of suffering: what was inflicted by people, what was inflicted by the Devil, and what was inflicted by God the Father.
I think what is more significant than the severity of suffering is Christ’s willingness to endure it voluntarily. He could have put an end to it any time He would have chosen to do so. Instead, He suffered sufficiently to pay for the sins of mankind, even if we are unable to comprehend how and why it must work this way.
Bookmark.
Bkmk
Profound
Heres an indirect quote to the Scriptures.
Who was responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ?
The Romans? The Jews?
Who drove the nails?
The answer, it was me. It was my sins. And if we are all honest, we can all take responsibility for the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Perhaps this is the answer you seek. We are responsible for the torture Jesus Christ received.
To say otherwise is to say we have not sinned and we make God a liar.
Romans 3:23
King James Version
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
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