Posted on 07/09/2020 7:48:15 AM PDT by metmom
Heresy as defined by the Catholic Church: “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth,which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same,” From the Catholic Catechism CCC 2089. The previous definition I used came from Webster’s Dictionary. Metmom has previously acknowledged that she is a baptized Catholic(inactive)that denies the Eucharist.
I believe God’s Truth as passed down through oral Sacred Tradition, the Sacred Scriptures, the teachings of the Catholic Church established by Jesus Christ and the teaching authority (Magisterium) that Jesus delegated to His Catholic Church.
Your comment: “I know you can’t help it; you believe what mortals have told you”
That is your personal opinion. Please provide specific examples where I have not posted God’s Truth and your documention that it is not God’s Truth?
As I recall, your version of Protestantism was Lutheran, can you provide God’s Truth from the Bible that supports your protestant doctrine?
So where does it say that Sola Scripture is the only authority of the teachings of Jesus?
How does one have faith in God if they do not believe in the teachings of Jesus?
Do you then reject the authority of Jesus to give His authority to Peter and his successors?
Do you reject that Jesus at the Last Supper offered to His Apostles and to all Catholics the Sacrament of the Eucharist - His Real living Body and Blood of Jesus Christ that is part of the Mass? And he told the Apostles and their successors to pray the Mass in His memory?
So which Bible do you accept the 77 books from the Catholic Councils around the turn of the fourth century or the Martin Luther (on his own) version lacking the 7 deuterocanonical books that Christ and the Apostles quoted?
May we both fully understand God’s Truth.
I don’t think anyone but a Catholic cares what Catholic definitions of words are.
They twist and distort the meanings of so many well known and common words that their opinion on the matter is meaningless.
Are you serious?
You just provided the perfect example in giving your Catholic definition of heresy.
That definition is found nowhere in Scripture, which is the bodyof God’s revealed Truth tothe world.
So where does it say that Sola Scripture is the only authority of the teachings of Jesus?
Why do Catholics make up definitions of sola scriptura that nobody believes and then go and pretend that people do and insist that we defend your fabrication?
Your comments: “I don’t think anyone but a Catholic cares what Catholic definitions of words are.”
Perhaps you should if you want to see Jesus.
You comment:”You just provided the perfect example in giving your Catholic definition of heresy.
That definition is found nowhere in Scripture, which is the bodyof God’s revealed Truth tothe world.”
So where does it say that all of God’s Truth or every definition is in the Bible? Apparently you don’t understand that the Word was made flesh, so the Truth is in God. You just seem to rely on your sola scriptura, which isn’t biblical at all and then accuse Catholics of protestant errors.
Again, you didn’t answer the questions nor did you defend your doctrines.
By the way, there are many references in the bible about Christ warning us about false prophets and false teachers. The heretics like Luther.
Matthew 7:15-16; 24:11; 26:59-60; 2 COR 11:13-14; 11:26; MARK 13:22; REV 16:13
“Do you then reject the authority of Jesus to give His authority to Peter and his successors?”
“The Rock” was Christ, not Peter. Nothing in Scripture mentions or refers to “successors”.
“As I recall, your version of Protestantism was Lutheran”
I’m not Protestant (post-Luther), or Lutheran.
“Heresy as defined by the Catholic Church...”
“Heresy” as defined by Aesop’s Fables is unicorns and Skittle poo. Anybody, and any organization, can make up stuff; it doesn’t make it true.
‘The previous definition I used came from Webster’s Dictionary.”
It’s ONE definition; it isn’t the primary definition.
“And he told the Apostles and their successors to pray the Mass in His memory?”
Uh ... that never happened. “Mass” is not a thing in the Bible; again ... made up stuff. He said, “this do in remembrance of me”. (1 Corinthians 11:24-25.) He was speaking to the Apostles; nothing was said about their successors. (We do, however, honor that as a church ordinance, by taking communion.)
So you believe that every word has to be in the Bible. Obviously the words “Trinity”, “Sola Scriptura”, “Sola Fides” “Purgatory” “Heresy” “Mass” etc. are not mentioned in the Bible. Your doctrine that everything has to be mentioned in the Bible is not logical or reasonable. So are you drinking the Kool-aid instead of your mind and heart to know and understand God?
Matthias was chosen to replace Judas Iscariot. (Acts 1:26) Timothy was a successor to St Paul (Read Timothy 1 and 2). The Bible itself shows that Jesus gave the apostles the power to appoint successors.
The doctrine of apostolic succession—central to the Catholic Church’s identity with the Church founded by Jesus in the first century—involves there being an unbroken line of bishops from the beginning of Christian history to the present.
The chain of apostolic succession, of course, started with the apostles themselves. But apostles stopped being commissioned in the first century, and so apostolic succession continues with the bishops, the successors of the apostles.
As the apostles died, the task of shepherding the Church fell by default upon the highest-ranking ministers appointed by them. This group is known today as the bishops, who are the successors of the apostles as the highest shepherds of the earthly Church.
Successors are they way the world works. Yes, Jesus could have done it differently, but this is how Christ’s Church has worked for 2000 years.
The Catholic Church sees in the command “Do this in remembrance of me” evidence that Jesus instituted the apostles as his ministerial priests.
It must have been someone else that indicated that they were Lutheran. I find it interesting that someone that criticizes the Catholic faith (generally falsely) does not disclose their faith background and doesn’t explain or defend their faith doctrines.
How can so many versions of Protestantism or Bible doctrines be God’s Truth?
Your comment: “Uh ... that never happened. “Mass” is not a thing in the Bible; again ... made up stuff.”
Perhaps you didn’t read or understand when Jesus told the Apostles at the last Supper “And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me’” (Luke 22:19). Also in (Matt. 26:26; Mark 14:22) reads: Touto estin to soma mou. Paul’s version differs slightly: Touto mou estin to soma (1 Cor. 11:24). They all translate as “This is my body.”
The Mass is our worship of the Glory of God and for the salvation of mankind and Jesus is with us in the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Catholic Communion is the Real Presence of Jesus. The protestant version is a symbol.
So you ignore the warnings from Jesus about false prophets and false teachers and question the definition of heresy? So one questions the definition of heresy and not the act of heresy the denial of an essential Catholic Truth from Jesus.
That tells me that someone does not understand God’s Truth.
“So you ignore the warnings from Jesus about false prophets and false teachers and question the definition of heresy?”
No; I don’t ignore warnings about false prophets. That’s why ... this is over.
That is interesting.
So you deny that you do not ignore warnings about false prophets and false teachers and fail to disclose your doctrines?
But you can make false claims against the Catholic faith without documentary evidence and then just try to end the discussion?
I am sorry if I am causing confusion, but I truly want you to understand God’s Truth.
Peace.
Here is an opportunity to see the Blood of Jesus Christ on a consecrated host on December 8 1991.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaxXn8NZ5EU
At 32.26 There were testimony and a scientific investigation that determined it as human blood.
There are many miracles over the centuries of the Eucharist.
This is proof for the unbelievers. Christ still bleeds for his concerns about our sins.
Please ... I said earlier that, “It’s over”. You may return to your re-education camp. Quit stalking me.
Then make sure that you don’t respond to my posts with false information about the catholic faith.
I am truly sorry if I upset you.
Peace be with you.
Oh there's substantiation all right...It's the bible...The bible condemns your religion...In fact a single bible verse destroys your religion...
Mar_16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Jesus is not on the Cross...Hasn't been in 2000 years and you'll never get him on a Cross again...
Other than the sacrifice of praise, Jesus requires no sacrifice...HE became the sacrifice, of his own volition...Neither you nor any other Catholic could possibly participate in Jesus' sacrifice...
Those who DID participate in the sacrifice of Jesus were the people who beat him, and nailed him to the Cross and shoved a spear into him...If you insist you are participating in the sacrifice of Jesus, you are throwing yourselves in with THAT lot...
Your comment: “The bible condemns your religion...In fact a single bible verse destroys your religion... “
Your post of Mark 16:6 provided no additional information or substantiation of your doctrine. You make blanket statements without understanding.
Yes it was yours, mine and other sins that put Him on the cross. And, we follow His command “Do this in remembrance of me.”
As Catholics, we worship and glorify God with our sacrifice of the Mass in communion with Body of Christ (on earth and the saints in Heaven).
The Mass is a sacrifice in the sense that when it takes place, Jesus Christ, through the bishop or the priest celebrating the Mass, makes present sacramentally his saving, sacrifical death on the cross by which he redeemed us from our sins. The Mass links the Eucharistic sacrifice to the sacrifice of the Cross and the Last Supper thus making the sacrifice of Christ becomes the sacrifice of all members of the Church. “The lives of the faithful, their praise, sufferings, prayer and work are united with those of Christ and with his total offering, and so acquire a new value.” CCC1368
The Eucharist is a sacrifice, a Holy Meal and the Real Presence of Jesus.
If you deny this, then you deny Jesus Christ
Catholicism has Jesus perpetually dying and never dead and raised and seated at the right hand of the Father where Scripture clearly tells us He is.
The Jesus of Scripture who saves is risen from the dead, not forever dying and never dead nor raised. And if Christ is not raised then we all believe in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:12-19 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.
For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
Not something I would brag on but you can't tell a Catholic that.
The mass is a fraud as Jesus is NOT dying, the priest is NOT participating in sacrificing Him again, or for forever.
The priest has no magical powers to change bread and wine into the actual body and blood of Jesus and nobody eats Him and drinks His blood to get saved.
Drinking blood is strictly forbidden by God throughout Scripture and by insisting people do it, Rome is demanding people sin.
Jesus death is not for the purpose of cannibalism. You don't physically eat Jesus to be spiritually made alive.
Don't eat the blood, the life is in the blood
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
Jesus Himself told us that the flesh is not help at all because it's the Spirit who gives life. Catholic teaching contradicts the clear teaching of Jesus Christ.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
You keep repeating lines of scripture, but not understanding or answering questions.
Your comment:’Catholicism has Jesus perpetually dying and never dead and raised and seated at the right hand of the Father where Scripture clearly tells us He is.”
Just another false and heretical statement that contradicts the Catholic faith. And of course you offer no proof.
Just an unbeliever like the Jews in John6.
I will continue to pray for you at Mass.
You do have a lot to learn.
I hope Jesus or the Blessed Mother can enlighten you as I have not helped you.
There is always Hope and the Sacrament of Confession.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.