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The Spectator: "Is the Pope a Catholic? You have to wonder."
American Spectator via Rorate Caeli ^ | June 14, 2019 | Melanie McDonagh, for The Spectator

Posted on 06/14/2019 8:16:00 AM PDT by ebb tide

The Spectator: "Is the Pope a Catholic? You have to wonder."

By Melanie McDonagh, for The Spectator:

Is the Pope a Catholic? You have to wonder. In the old days, a pope’s remit was modest: infallible, but only in the vanishingly rare cases when he pronounced on matters of faith and morals concerning the whole Church. But even at their most bombastic and badly behaved, earlier popes would have hesitated to do what nice Pope Francis has done, which is to approve changes in the liturgy which amount to rewriting the Lord’s Prayer.

That bit that says ‘Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil’ is, for Pope Francis, a bad translation. ‘It speaks of a God who induces temptation,’ he told Italian TV. ‘I am the one who falls. It’s not him pushing me into temptation to then see how I have fallen. A father doesn’t do that; A father helps you to get up immediately.’

Which sounds as if it’s not the translation he doesn’t like, it’s the sentiment — Christ not being Christian enough. And so, he’s approved changes by the Italian bishops to the Italian translation of the Roman Missal. The original Latin Vulgate version reads: ‘et ne nos inducas in tentationem’ which is pretty well exactly the same as the familiar English one. The Italian translation, ‘e non ci indurre in tentazione’, is now being replaced with ‘e non abbandonarci alla tentazione’, or ‘and do not abandon us to temptation’.

This matters because the Lord’s Prayer is common to Christians of all denominations. It’s part of our languages and our culture. We say it at weddings, funerals; the unreligious remember it from school. It’s a common prayer which binds us together. Why change the words? Especially since, as Greek scholars will tell you that the root verb, eisphero means bring or carry in, and hence, lead; nothing about ‘allow’.

The whole piece is here. We have to disagree with just one point, where the author writes, "Henry VIII and Pope Francis don’t have much in common but they did see eye to eye on this. Henry wanted ‘lead us not…’ to be translated as ‘Suffer us not to be led into temptation’, only to be seen off by Archbishop Cranmer..."

Actually, Francis and Henry share exactly the same kind of personality, and, except for the womanizing, Francis only differs from Henry in the great restraints posed by current mores on how to get rid of adversaries... But he has destroyed orders (Franciscans of the Immaculate, and others), organized coups (Knights of Malta), changed teachings of immemorial Tradition (on marriage and adultery, and others), acting exactly as the "Renaissance Prince" he is, even though he loathes the title...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: catholic; francischurch; heretic; pope
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1 posted on 06/14/2019 8:16:00 AM PDT by ebb tide
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To: dp0622; terycarl; FourtySeven; Al Hitan; Biggirl; Coleus; DuncanWaring; ebb tide; Fedora; ...

Ping


2 posted on 06/14/2019 8:17:52 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome)
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To: ebb tide
Francis and Henry share exactly the same kind of personality, and, except for the womanizing

Yeah, pretty sure womanizing isn't the problem for Francis.

3 posted on 06/14/2019 8:21:25 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (If White Privilege is real, why did Elizabeth Warren lie about being an Indian?)
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To: ebb tide

No. He isn’t a fervent defender of the Depositum Fidei and the Magisterium of the Church. If he thinks it’s wrong, then he isn’t Catholic and should make it official and leave the Church.

Even if he’s right.


4 posted on 06/14/2019 8:24:03 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Islam, not a religion, a totalitarian political ideology aiming for world domination. -Wilders)
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To: ebb tide

Is a bear Catholic? Does the Pope do THAT in the woods?

Some things are perfectly obvious.

Just not this Pope. He remains a mystery - who chose him, and why?


5 posted on 06/14/2019 8:24:19 AM PDT by alloysteel (The difference between real life and fiction? Fiction has to make sense and follow some logic.)
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To: ebb tide

Let US pray that misguided; immigration, Islam, and climate bridge builder Pope Francis gets a Colonel Boggie moment ( the lead character in the movie Bridge On The River Qwai played by Alex Guiness) and does a mea culpa and finally decides to question the results of what he’s done what he’s done and falls on the dentonator which destroys the bridges he built) and resigns.


6 posted on 06/14/2019 8:30:11 AM PDT by mosesdapoet (mosesdapoet aka L,J,Keslin posting for the record hoping some might read and pass around)
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To: alloysteel

The ImPopester was installed by the New World Order to eradicate the moral authority of the Catholic Church and prepare the flock for slaughter by muslims.


7 posted on 06/14/2019 8:30:11 AM PDT by Lurkinanloomin (Natural Born Citizen Means Born Here Of Citizen Parents_Know Islam, No Peace-No Islam, Know Peace)
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To: ebb tide

so this may lead to a reunification of the churches...

woo hoo...

one step closer to the end of it all.


8 posted on 06/14/2019 8:31:06 AM PDT by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: ebb tide
The papacy has always believed that it had the power to change Scripture or to ignore it. This is one of the main reasons that the Reformers called the papacy the Antichrist.
10 posted on 06/14/2019 8:37:18 AM PDT by Ullus (Papacy above Scripture.)
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To: Ullus
The papacy has always believed that it had the power to change Scripture or to ignore it.

No, you're wrong. You appear to be talking about Martin Luther.

11 posted on 06/14/2019 8:41:07 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome)
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To: dsrtsage
Maybe his high holyness is high


12 posted on 06/14/2019 8:42:14 AM PDT by C210N (You can vote your way into Socialism; but, you have to shoot your way out of it.)
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To: ebb tide
"Is the Pope a Catholic?"

No. He's a Jesuit.

13 posted on 06/14/2019 8:46:23 AM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: ebb tide

This matters because the Lord’s Prayer is common to Christians of all denominations.


Which means zip. Too many people are unaware that the Catholic bible is not the KJV and has serious differences.

If the bible isn’t common, the Lord’s Prayer is trivial in comparison. Do a side-by-side reading of the Ten Commandments, for example.


14 posted on 06/14/2019 8:53:06 AM PDT by sparklite2 (Don't mind me. I'm just a contrarian.)
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To: ebb tide

He’s a commie one worlder totally ignorant of Taqiyya!


15 posted on 06/14/2019 8:55:16 AM PDT by Harpotoo (Being a socialist is a lot easier than having to WORK like the rest of US:-))
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To: ebb tide

Same as asking if the devil is Catholic.


16 posted on 06/14/2019 8:58:37 AM PDT by bgill (when you badmouth women, you are badmouthing your mama and the good women on FR)
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To: mosesdapoet

A beautiful hope. Let us pray that Bergoglio will come to his senses and a state of grace, and destroy in a magnificent moment all the evil he has done.


17 posted on 06/14/2019 9:06:32 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Cordially.)
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To: dsrtsage; ebb tide

Pope is potentially Catholic, if by Catholic, you mean a sinner open to God’s grace, and an instrument in His hands.


18 posted on 06/14/2019 9:08:52 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Cordially.)
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To: Ullus
"The papacy has always believed that it had the power to change Scripture or to ignore it."

This is untrue.

And one part which might have escaped your notice, but which is in your Scripture and in mine:

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.


19 posted on 06/14/2019 9:12:11 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Cordially.)
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To: sparklite2

Go ahead and do it for us. Chapter and verse. KJV vs Douai-Rheims, or NASB (widely regarded as one of the most literally translated of 20th-century English Bible translations) vs NABRE (Catholic), or your choice.


20 posted on 06/14/2019 9:15:25 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (I'm here to learn.)
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