Posted on 05/23/2018 2:50:24 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
Don't be obtuse. Say what you mean.
Scripture says the Apostles - the first priests of the Church Christ established- have the sacramental powers to turn bread into His Body ("do this in remembrance of Me") and the power to forgive sins, is clear in Scripture.
Scripture says the Apostles - the first priests of the Church Christ established- have the sacramental powers to turn bread into His Body (”do this in remembrance of Me”) and the power to forgive sins, is clear in Scripture.
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Thing is that if you want to be painfully strict like that, it means that no one else has that power at all.
Where in Scripture were these specific sacramental powers given to other than the priests of Christ's Church?
Just because you believe something doesn't make it real.
Where in Scripture were these ‘powers’ given to anyone but solely the Apostles?
If you’re going to insist that your priesthood has these ‘powers’ you have to explain why you refuse to even consider that anyone else who follows the teachings of the Apostles would have the same.
Where in the Bible is >that<???
John 20 doesn't say that Jesus gave power to forgive and retain sin to the apostles only. Jesus was speaking to His disciples in John 20 and the context indicated both men and women, apostles and those who were not apostles were breathed upon and given authority by Jesus to forgive and retain sins. Additionally, preceding His giving authority to Believers to forgive and retain sin, Jesus said, "Receive the Holy Spirit". It could be argued that "Receiving the Holy Spirit" is a prerequisite for having authority to forgive and retain sin. Assuming this is so, on the day of Pentecost, 120 Believers made up of: men and women, possibly some children received the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues.
If you're an apologist for the Roman Catholic church teaching that authority to absolve sins is limited to its priests only, I would respectfully disagree based my read of John 20 and the book of Acts account of the 120 receiving the Holy Spirit in the upper room.
Who else was he speaking to? You are just making things up. Not 'context' look at the actual words
Don't be obtuse. Say what you mean.
I'm not the obtuse one.
Read Acts....
Scripture says the Apostles - the first priests of the Church Christ established- have the sacramental powers to turn bread into His Body ("do this in remembrance of Me")
No. Scripture does not say what you claim.
and the power to forgive sins, is clear in Scripture.
Again...read Acts....focus on chapters 2-4.
Who else was he speaking to? You are just making things up. Not 'context' look at the actual words.
No. Context is critical to understand this issue. You can't just pull one verse out of context and read into it what you want.
You have no idea of the magnitude of what you wrote here.
So explain it, using Scripture to support your man made beliefs
PS: The reason I put ‘powers’ in quotes is because I don’t like the connotation that the word has, not because of mockery.
So explain it, using Scripture to support your man made beliefs.
No....let's see if you can figure it out. This might be fun.
I am quoting Scripture. Scripture says EXACTLY what I say, because I am quoting Scripture
Nope. Scripture no where says the bread is ever turned into His body.
Scripture says the Apostles - the first priests of the Church Christ established- have the sacramental powers to turn bread into His Body ("do this in remembrance of Me")
That's why context is your key to understanding the Scriptures.
I am quoting Scripture. Scripture says EXACTLY what I say, because I am quoting Scripture
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And believe me I appreciate that.
The issue I have is that while the authority to forgive and retain sins WAS given to Jesus’ Apostles (or potentially the Church at large), it does not therefore follow that ONLY Roman Catholic priests have that authority today, as it seemed you were arguing.
So you admit you cannot use Scripture to support your man-made beliefs. I understand.
So you admit you cannot use Scripture to support your man-made beliefs. I understand.
Oh no....I want you to read Acts 2-4 and try to figure this out for yourself.
“Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 16:17-18
Then he said He will send the Spirit to guide us into all Truth:
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:12-13
And note, Scripture says THE CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of that Truth:
“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15
And Christ did not imply this was a temporary thing, until, say, there was a Bible or a bunch of heretics created their own religions 1,500 years later.
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Mat 28:18-20
There can only be one Truth. But the men of the Protestant ‘reformation’ – breaking away after 1,500 years from the Church Christ established – discovered a ‘new’ truth and introduced false teachings.
Paul warned us about those introducing false teachings, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Tim. 4:3–4).
The protestant “reformation” is simply not Biblical:
“I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 1Cor 1:10-17
You could easily read the above as “One of you says, "I follow Luther"; another, "I follow Calvin"; another, "I follow Wesley"; still another, "I follow Christ."
Christians cannot be “perfectly united in mind and thought” when they have different beliefs on, say, the necessity of water baptism, while others believe “This is my Body” means “This is a cookie”
There can be only one ‘Truth’ – Christ is THE way, THE truth, THE life. One, not many.
And what if you have a disagreement with a brother as to what is ‘The Truth?’ Where do you go to resolve your issue? Scripture tells us what to do:
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the Church; and if he refuses to listen even to the Church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Right – the Church. The Church Christ established to teach the TRUTH.
Fortunately, we have Christ’s promise that heresies will never prevail against the Church. They will arise, endure sometimes for centuries, like Protestantism, but we can be confident in Christ’s promise that the Church He established will always teach the Truth.
This is My Body
Figure that one out
Why won't you answer a simple question? Because you can't, using Scripture
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