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Why Russians Hate the Idea of the Separation of Church and State
Russian Faith ^ | 10/25/17 | Matfey Shaheen

Posted on 10/29/2017 8:28:36 AM PDT by marshmallow

By severing the union between them, you don’t decrease corruption. You increase it

One of the most common criticisms of organised religion is that it involves itself in the affairs of politics and war.

People say: “Why are religious leaders getting involved in political discussions? Politics is Politics, religion is religion, never should the two meet.”

Non-religious people point to the Papal States and the Spanish Inquisition as examples of religion being too political. Likewise, many religious people have reasonable concerns that religion could be corrupted by politics and used for nefarious ends.

Meanwhile, throughout history, there has always been a close relationship between the Orthodox Church and various states; this is true from the times of the Roman (Byzantine) Empire to the Russian Empire and even in modern countries such as Greece, Romania, and, of course, Russia.

“Should the Orthodox Church have a close relationship with the State?”

In Orthodox countries, the answer is obvious - of course, it should!

But should the Church involve itself in the State, which may involve itself in the dangerous affairs of politics and warfare?

Yes, because the Orthodox Church, does not see itself as much as an “invisible church, a body of the elect” but as a spiritual hospital.

Our Father Among the Saints, John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople says:

Enter into the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed again to enter the Church, be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent.

The Orthodox Church always saw it first and foremost as a place to heal people from a mortally ill condition, the disease of sin.

In Orthodox theology, the term mortally ill is quite literal; Orthodox people believe that death is the direct result of.....

(Excerpt) Read more at russian-faith.com ...


TOPICS: Orthodox Christian; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: europeanchristians; russia

1 posted on 10/29/2017 8:28:36 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

The problem with this, of course, is that a church-state monopoly is required.

That monopoly on power is an invitation to corruption.

Separation of a particular church (no establishment religion) is a check and balance that allows church leaders to serve as a check on government power.

It also creates the situation of more possibility for people to follow moral, rather than political guides for their conduct.

No King but Jesus is a healthy way to view the world.


2 posted on 10/29/2017 8:36:12 AM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries.)
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To: marktwain

“The problem with this, of course, is that a church-state monopoly is required.

So what do you get when you eliminate the church?


3 posted on 10/29/2017 8:38:16 AM PDT by JPJones (Who is FOR tariffs? George Washington, Ronald Reagan and Me.)
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To: marktwain
The problem with this, of course, is that a church-state monopoly is required.

Exactly so. Keep in mind that at times the Democrats will be in charge...do we really want them picking the religion to partner with the state?

4 posted on 10/29/2017 8:41:17 AM PDT by Simon Green
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To: JPJones

China, the Soviet Union, the French Revolution, Cuba, Cambodia, Zimbabwe.


5 posted on 10/29/2017 8:42:22 AM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries.)
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To: JPJones
So what do you get when you eliminate the church?

How does not partnering with the state eliminate the church?

6 posted on 10/29/2017 8:42:36 AM PDT by Simon Green
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To: Simon Green

“How does not partnering with the state eliminate the church?”

Clarification:

I didn’t mean “eliminate the church”, I meant: eliminate the church from your church-state monopoly.

IOW, don’t you get an even more nefarious monopoly?


7 posted on 10/29/2017 9:00:08 AM PDT by JPJones (Who is FOR tariffs? George Washington, Ronald Reagan and Me.)
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To: JPJones
I didn’t mean “eliminate the church”, I meant: eliminate the church from your church-state monopoly. IOW, don’t you get an even more nefarious monopoly?

I'm not sure I understand your point. Doesn't the state have a monopoly on government power by definition?

8 posted on 10/29/2017 9:12:54 AM PDT by Simon Green
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To: Simon Green

“Doesn’t the state have a monopoly on government power by definition?”

Not if it’s a “church-state” monopoly, as you originally proposed.


9 posted on 10/29/2017 9:18:19 AM PDT by JPJones (Who is FOR tariffs? George Washington, Ronald Reagan and Me.)
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To: marshmallow

Christians in Russia Refuse to Stop Sharing the Gospel Despite Putin’s Ban on Evangelism

By Stoyan Zaimov , Christian Post Reporter
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:32 PM

Christians in Russia have said they are determined to preach the Gospel and fulfill the Great Commission despite tough new laws signed by President Vladimir Putin that ban evangelism outside of churches. ...”

http://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-russia-refuse-stop-sharing-the-gospel-despite-putins-ban-evangelism-167442/
_____________________________________________________

July 2016...

FAITH UNDER FIRE

Russia puts lid on Christians sharing faith

Will require any sharing … even a casual conversation, to have prior authorization from state

http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/russia-puts-lid-on-christians-sharing-faith/#34c1Fo2QT9xudcrR.99
_____________________________________________________

July 2016...

______________________________________________________

“Activities as diverse as holding prayer meetings in homes, posting worship times on a religious community’s website, and giving a lecture on yoga have all been interpreted by police and prosecutors as “missionary activity”, thanks to the broad definition now enshrined in the Religion Law.

Despite a clear predominance of prosecutions brought against those who see their faith as requiring them to publicly share their beliefs, such as Protestants and Jehovah’s Witnesses, people from at least 15 different religious traditions have faced charges.” ..."

On 6 July 2016, President Vladimir Putin signed amendments to the Religion Law imposing harsh restrictions on the sharing of beliefs, including on where and by whom they may be shared. ..."

http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2305

10 posted on 10/29/2017 9:20:05 AM PDT by ETL (Obama-Hillary, REAL Russia collusion! Uranium-One Deal, Missile Defense, Nukes. See my FR page)
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To: marshmallow
From the Russian Orthodox Church's website...

WCC welcomes meeting of Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill for unity and peace

12 February 2016

Rev. Dr Olav Fykse Tveit, general secretary of the World Council of Churches (WCC), has issued a statement on behalf of the Council hailing the historic meeting of Pope Francis, pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church, and Patriarch Kirill, primate of the Russian Orthodox Church.

The two leaders met on 12 February in Havana, Cuba.

The Russian Orthodox Church is the largest member church in the WCC..."

https://www.oikoumene.org/en/press-centre/news/wcc-welcomes-meeting-of-pope-francis-and-patriarch-kirill

_______________________________________________________

Got that? The Russian Orthodox Church is a member of the (far left) World Council of Churches.

That is all you need to know to understand that it is a sham operation. Reverend Wright’s fake church United Church of Christ (UCC) is also a member. In fact, his (communist) “Black Liberation Theology” was concocted by the KGB.

The Russians are masters at the art of deception. They must laugh their butts off at how easily westerners can be tricked and deceived. They play chess, thinking many moves ahead of their opponents, while most of us, unfortunately, suck at simple checkers.

The Russian Orthodox Church is a member of the (communist ) World Council of Churches:
https://www.oikoumene.org/en/member-churches/russian-orthodox-church
____________________________________

From David Horowitz's FrontPageMag.com/DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
Profile: WORLD COUNCIL OF CHURCHES (WCC)


11 posted on 10/29/2017 9:21:33 AM PDT by ETL (Obama-Hillary, REAL Russia collusion! Uranium-One Deal, Missile Defense, Nukes. See my FR page)
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To: marshmallow
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Putin: Defender of Christian Faith and Morality?

September 2014

(excerpt from a long, detailed article)

First and foremost, in any review of the basics regarding Putin, the most outstanding fact is that he is a creature of the Soviet KGB, a truly diabolical organization nonpareil, which stood for murder, terror, and grand deception.

It was the Soviet Communist Party's tool for the brutal suppression of religion, including the persecution of Christians: denying them jobs and education; spying on and entrapping them; arresting and imprisoning them; torturing them in unspeakable ways; desecrating and demolishing their church buildings; infiltrating their agents into churches to subvert them. The KGB destroyed thousands of Christian churches, monasteries, convents, and schools, and slaughtered millions of Christians.

But it did not destroy the churches utterly. There remained an underground church, whose members were always at risk of discovery, arrest, torture, and martyrdom. Above ground, the KGB took control of the Russian Orthodox Church, which became a very useful organ of the Soviet atheist state.

In January 2009, Vladimir Mikhailovich Gundyaev, better known as Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad, was elected, from a short list of three candidates, to be the 16th Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, the highest position of authority in the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC). The election was called to fill the post that had been left vacant by the death of Patriarch Alexy II, who had headed the ROC since 1990.

Documents from the KGB archives have confirmed what sensible observers had long ago deduced from his actions: that Patriarch Alexy II (also spelled Alexi or Alexei) was a long-serving KGB agent (code-named Drozdov, "Blackbird"), in other words, a traitor to his Christian brethren and the God he claimed to serve. Putin's KGB/FSB was taking no chances with his replacement. All three candidates - Metropolitan Kliment of Kaluga and Borovsk (code-named Topaz), Metropolitan Filaret of Minsk and Slutsk (code-named Ostrovskii), and Metropolitan Kirill (code-named Mikhailov) - also have been reliably identified as agents of the KGB/FSB.

Russia expert David Satter, a former Moscow correspondent for the Financial Times (of London) and the Wall Street Journal, wrote of the election in 2009 for Forbes:

According to material from the Soviet archives, Kirill was a KGB agent (as was Alexei). This means he was more than just an informer, of whom there were millions in the Soviet Union. He was an active officer of the organization. Neither Kirill nor Alexei ever acknowledged or apologized for their ties with the security agencies.

Because Patriarch Kirill is of central importance to the myth of Putin as the Saul-to-Paul, Christian persecutor-to-Christian champion, it behooves us to more closely examine the man. He has publicly presided over, and provided official benedictions and exhortations for, Putin's cynical and Stalinesque exploitation of Russian nationalism and Russian Orthodoxy. Josef Stalin, who had very nearly consummated the annihilation of the Russian Orthodox Church begun by Vladimir Lenin, reversed course in 1941. The reason? His erstwhile partner in crime, Adolf Hitler, had turned on him and had invaded Russia.

Stalin, needing all the help he could get, cut a deal with ROC Metropolitans Sergius, Nikolay, and Alexy. In exchange for their support in rallying the Russian people, he would cease (temporarily) the persecution and allow the reopening of churches and theological schools. In fact, Stalin's Soviet government paid for the rebuilding of many of the churches. The ROC was thus placed even more firmly under the control of the NKVD, which was later to be reorganized and renamed as the KGB. ..."

much more at link

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/19162-putin-defender-of-christian-faith-and-morality

__________________________________________________________________

"For 16 years Putin was an officer in the KGB, rising to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel before he retired to enter politics in his native Saint Petersburg in 1991.

He moved to Moscow in 1996 and joined President Boris Yeltsin's administration where he rose quickly, becoming Acting President on 31 December 1999 when Yeltsin unexpectedly resigned. Putin won the subsequent 2000 presidential election, despite widespread accusations of vote-rigging,[3] and was reelected in 2004."

"On 25 July 1998, Yeltsin appointed Vladimir Putin head of the FSB (one of the successor agencies to the KGB), the position Putin occupied until August 1999. He became a permanent member of the Security Council of the Russian Federation on 1 October 1998 and its Secretary on 29 March 1999."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin

12 posted on 10/29/2017 9:22:12 AM PDT by ETL (Obama-Hillary, REAL Russia collusion! Uranium-One Deal, Missile Defense, Nukes. See my FR page)
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To: marshmallow

This is the time bomb deployed at the start of the USA, which is soon to detonate and blow up the republic.


13 posted on 10/29/2017 9:24:43 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: marshmallow

So we hated the Russians under the Soviet Union because they were atheists.

Now we hate them because they’re too religious.


14 posted on 10/29/2017 9:28:43 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
So we hated the Russians under the Soviet Union because they were atheists. Now we hate them because they’re too religious.

There were many reasons besides that to hate the Soviet Union. Hope I don't need to go into that. In any case, perhaps you should at least try reading and understanding the info I provided above.

15 posted on 10/29/2017 9:38:12 AM PDT by ETL (Obama-Hillary, REAL Russia collusion! Uranium-One Deal, Missile Defense, Nukes. See my FR page)
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To: marktwain

“China, the Soviet Union, the French Revolution, Cuba, Cambodia, Zimbabwe.”

It’s gets ugly doesn’t it?


16 posted on 10/29/2017 9:52:56 AM PDT by JPJones (Who is FOR tariffs? George Washington, Ronald Reagan and Me.)
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To: dfwgator
"Rev. Dr Olav Fykse Tveit, general secretary of the World Council of Churches (WCC), has issued a statement on behalf of the Council hailing the historic meeting of Pope Francis, pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church, and Patriarch Kirill, primate of the Russian Orthodox Church.

The two leaders met on 12 February in Havana, Cuba.

The Russian Orthodox Church is the largest member church in the WCC..."

https://www.oikoumene.org/en/press-centre/news/wcc-welcomes-meeting-of-pope-francis-and-patriarch-kirill
____________________________________________

From David Horowitz's FrontPageMag.com/DiscoverTheNetworks.org:
Profile: WORLD COUNCIL OF CHURCHES (WCC)


17 posted on 10/29/2017 10:04:46 AM PDT by ETL (Obama-Hillary, REAL Russia collusion! Uranium-One Deal, Missile Defense, Nukes. See my FR page)
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To: dfwgator

“So we hated the Russians under the Soviet Union because they were atheists.

Now we hate them because they’re too religious.”

Doesn’t make sense, does it.


18 posted on 10/29/2017 10:29:28 AM PDT by JPJones (Who is FOR tariffs? George Washington, Ronald Reagan and Me.)
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To: marshmallow

Separation of Church and State is one of the major principles of a secular republic. It is by the way one of the principles of modern Russian state written in the Russian Constitution too.
In reality you can see the increasing meddling of Church into politics in Russia and government mostly overlooks it in exchange for lip service to the governmnt politics by Church officials.
In a long run it doesn’t serve well to both Church and the government because it sometimes looks Medieval and people see it.
They almost expect persecution of non-Christians and witch-burning as a next step.


19 posted on 10/29/2017 9:41:06 PM PDT by NorseViking
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To: JPJones
I think the founders should have made Christianity the state religion, with tolerance and expected love for Jews. It should not have been one denomination of Christianity, but Christianity no less. Other religions or no religion may have been allowed from citizens, but Christianity would be understood to be the official religion of the USA.
20 posted on 11/06/2017 4:25:18 PM PST by Bellflower (Who dares believe Jesus?)
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