Posted on 10/08/2017 12:28:07 PM PDT by SVTCobra03
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>> “So, I assume thou hast sold whatsoever thou had, and gave to the poor.” <<
That may be the part that shook you most, but the other part was much more difficult.
Following Yeshua was the part he couldn’t bring himself to do.
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The unadulterated word comes from history and the Catholic Church.
Are you aware that the first Bible printed at Guttenberg was the Catholic Vulgate?
Iniquity is the broad path, filled with the “doing it my way” pleasures of the false life.
John's first epistle is the most succinct delivery of the gospel of the kingdom.
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>> “The unadulterated word comes from history and the Catholic Church.” <<
No, it does not!
Yeshua commissioned no church.
Paul stated plainly that the oracles of Yehova are committed unto Judah, not to any church.
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Are you saying that you do not believe in the New Covenant — Jesus Christ?
Packer is good and right about a lot of stuff, but I think he is wrong in a bunch of his points here.
For one thing, even those who believe in absolute election as he seems to, cannot state who will or will not be saved. So from our perspective, we MUST appeal to everyone as if they were going to be saved. We present. That is our job. We are not responsible for the results.
God's word DOES tell us that we are saved simply by believing.
MANY churches still teach that God actively draws men to Himself.
And I don't see that God choosing to not override man's will in where he wishes to spend eternity is weak or impotent nor does He "wait in quiet impotence". I look back at many instances in my life where the gospel was presented to me before I got saved. God was hardly "waiting in quiet impotence". He was actively engaging me throughout that entire time.
All the Scripture I have to post to support my position is on my computer at home.
I think he misunderstands and therefore misrepresents the non-Calvinist viewpoint.
I agree. There are variations of end times "timing." The predominant Evangelical view being millennial meaning a literal Kingly rule of Christ on earth for 1,000 years. The differences as you note are in the rapture or harpazo. Is it pre trib, mid trib, pre wrath or post trib/concurrent with the Second Advent of Christ as conquering King.
The view you hold to is what is called the historic millennial view. It was shared by many of the very early church theologians and also in the Didache. That the early church writers were millennial and what was called Chiliasm, the later church deemed heretical. Interesting as some of these early fathers such as Irenaeus were deemed church doctors.
I will add the literal millennial view is not associated with the crack pot time predictors and numerology fads of today.
So I reiterate the point. Jesus commanded us to love others as He loved us. A constant, overarching focus on the secret rapture indeed distracts believers from that imperative
I disagree. I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive.
There's simply no reason why believing in the rapture would preclude someone living as Jesus commanded us to live.
And your criticisms of the person's behavior did not disprove his point because your criticisms were of what you perceieved his attitude to be, not based on what he did or did not do.
Yes and so what? It proves nothing.
Your comment was asking what truth was, not anything to do with your priest talking about eternal life every week.
So you tell me, what IS Truth that you claim you know? I want YOUR answer, not someone else’s.
My evidence against a secret-rapture was solid. It was met with false accusations. If you don’t want to believe that’s what happened, that’s your choice.
But we don’t know what it was so it is impossible to determine how solid it was. Nor were we privvy to the conversation so have not heard the other POV.
Why do they preclude each other and HOW do they preclude each other?
How does believing in a secret rapture prevent someone from ministering to the poor in the ways you described?
I can only speak from my personal experience. Here is what I have experienced firsthand. The doctrine of the secret rapture is of great significance to those who embrace it. They wish everyone did. They can be patient and polite in attempting to win a person over to that doctrine. But if the person continues, in a polite and logical-rational way, to present counter-evidence, the veneer of patience quickly deteriorates. Pretty soon it’s insult time.
This has been my experience. Perhaps future experiences will differ.
I have noticed that tendency for ANY doctrine. People do not take it well when others disagree with them even if they use Scripture to support their position.
That said, my other two questions remain.
Why and how does the belief in a secret rapture preclude such activities as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, ministering to the sick, and visiting those in prison?
And responding with comments about how rude someone’s behavior was is not relevant to aforementioned activities. It does NOT disprove their point or prove yours.
Yes, it’s easy to elevate doctrine above loving others. That is why we should pay such close attention to Matthew 25:31ff. At the very moment of dividing the eternally saved from the eternally lost, Jesus Himself tells us on what basis the division occurs. He doesn’t say, ‘You defended doctrines diligently, receive your reward,’ or, ‘You failed to defend doctribes; depart into eternal fire.’
The metric is how we treated others. That applies to Internet forums also. If, off the forum, a person cares for the sick, imprisoned, foodless and clothesless, that is good. But if on the forum a person is rude, insulting, and prone to make false accusations, that counts too. Jesus didn’t confine the outworking of agape only to food pantries. It must be our practice toward every person we encounter, without exception.
That believing in Christ as the Savior brings everlasting life? That one is the MAIN point, sir. The Revelation stuff is indecipherable fluff.
I doubt your 'data'.
Matthew 28:18-20
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
You must an English speaker.
It's just too bad about all them thar Spaniards, and Frenchies, and Germans, and Chinese and Swedes and South Sea Islanders... that do NOT have the Only Real, Good, Accurate, Authentic and Authorized Translations to read and learn from!
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