Posted on 04/18/2017 5:28:47 PM PDT by ebb tide
Is the Pope Catholic?
I really had a lot of respect for most of what the last two or three popes did, said.
(rest assured there’s probably nobody I agree with 100 percent but still.....)
Pope Francis poses difficulties....imho.
I recently encountered, for the first time, the lunatic argument that:
It is necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
Benedict is still Pope.
Therefore, all those who think Bergoglio is Pope are damned.
Fear not Art! I have it on good opinion you don't even have to be Catholic to be saved. So don't be losing any sleep over the Anti-Popes ravings/edicts.
The jury is still out on that one.
CC
Since it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the Roman Pontiff, then all who die between the death of one Pope and the election of another, are damned.
It’s simple logic!
I am a big supporter of the Catholic faith, and saw this Pope in Rome. The biggest problem I see is that he is sort of like the Obama of Popes.
Fear not, the Holy Spirit is still guiding the Catholic Church.
Through whom?
Certainly not Bergoglio.
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." - Pope Boniface VIII
I think you may be right.
Even the Catholic Church teaches that you don’t have to be Catholic to be saved.
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 8
Such nonsense!
Yes I disagree with it. It is the extravagant teaching of one Pope. It presages Fr. Feeney’s heresy.
On this subject, I believe the teaching of the Catholic Church as taught in the Baltimore Catechism.
I believe the argument was referring to Catholics. Specifically, I believe the argument was referring to Catholics who profess that Francis is a true pope and, practically speaking, do nothing to submit to him in any way. They disregard his liturgy, his laws, and his teachings on faith and morals.
Do you disagree with the Magisterial teaching that a Catholic must be subject to the pope for salvation?
Is this the place in the Baltimore Catechism that you are referring to?:
147. Did Christ give special power in His Church to any one of the apostles?
Christ gave special power in His Church to Saint Peter by making him the head of the apostles and the chief teacher and ruler of the entire Church.
But Peter, standing up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice and spoke out to them. (Acts 2:14)
And let us also not discount the words of a doctor of the church as displayed in an article published this week by Novus Ordo Watch:
A good summary of the attitude of Catholics to the laws of the Church is presented by St. Robert Bellarmine in his De Romano Pontifice, lib. IV, cap. 15:
In the Catholic Church it has always been believed that bishops in their dioceses and the Roman Pontiff in the whole Church are the ecclesiastical rulers [‘principes’] who can, by their own authority and without the consent of the people or advice of the priests, pass laws which bind in conscience, give judgements in ecclesiastical trials after the manner of other judges, and, finally, impose punishment.
No.
Do you accept the words of Saint Robert Bellarmine on the allegience and importance (including the power to bind in conscience) due to the Roman Pontiff? Or are his words no longer of importance in the “new church”?
Do the “new seminaries” (from the 1960’s -on) still teach the saint’s writings?
The matter (on the importance of the Sovereign Pontiff) is discussed by the doctor of the church as reprinted in an article published this week by Novus Ordo Watch:
A good summary of the attitude of Catholics to the laws of the Church is presented by St. Robert Bellarmine in his De Romano Pontifice, lib. IV, cap. 15:
“In the Catholic Church it has always been believed that bishops in their dioceses and the Roman Pontiff in the whole Church are the ecclesiastical rulers [‘principes’] who can, by their own authority and without the consent of the people or advice of the priests, pass laws which bind in conscience, give judgements in ecclesiastical trials after the manner of other judges, and, finally, impose punishment.”
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