Posted on 04/28/2016 9:06:33 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
It would be great to have that quote from the Pope on a reading comprehension test -— after you’ve had a week studying literary and social context.
It’s quite clear Pope Francis is contrasting two models of “God”, one impersonal and the other personal. He is saying that God does not exist as a “ god spray,” a “vague idea in the clouds”, but as the Persons of the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
In other words he is rejecting the god of Deism, a vague force, energy or vibe, and proclaiming the Personal Trinitarian God of Christianity.
He supposed to do that.
He’s the pope.
For heaven’s sake.
Bergoglio is expressly stating differently.
I understand the point you are trying to make, i.e. draw near to an all-loving God, the bounteous loving Father; the Son Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Word, who has sacrificed Himself on the Cross to redeem us and show us just how much the love of God overflows for us; the Holy Spirit, the outpouring of the love of the Father and the Son for each other that flows into our souls to quicken, enlighten and inflame us with love for the Holy Trinity in return.
That is not what Bergoglio is about.
Pope Saint Pius X warned the faithful to not extend the benefit of the doubt to those who were attempting to pervert the Faith by thinking they were merely not expressing themselves clearly, or that they 'meant well' and were just trying to reach out to others. Instead Pius X said that imprecise language betrays heretical and deceptive intent.
Saint Paul to the Galations 1:6-10
[6] I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. [7] Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
I don't believe for a minute that Pope Francis' intent was to deny the existence of God, but rather to contrast a gaseous, impersonal "Deist" God with the true Personal God of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, may the Holy Trinity be blessed forever.
However, he's so vague, paradoxical and ambiguous, you don't know what he'll come up with next. A pantheon? A Holy Quartet? Sometimes I wonder if he doesn't actually have an incipient brain disorder.
He says he doesn't even "remember" the notorious Footnote 351. Who wrote that dang Exhortation, anyway?
As for who wrote it, here is a brief bio of its author with no endorsement by me of the web site;
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/04/02/its-titled-the-joy-of-sex-just-sayin/
I know that Ratzinger seems to be precision compared to Bergoglio, but he is the one who had the original problem with defining the meaning of the verb “is”, back in the Vatican-2 days: i.e. by his introduction into the texts of “the Body of Christ SUBSISTS IN the Catholic Church” instead of the proper “the Body of Christ IS the Catholic Church”.
Here is a photo of Rahner & Ratzinger as periti, experts, at Vatican-2:
http://www.novusordowatch.org/_Media/rahner-ratzinger_med.jpeg
Peace.
I go with "subsists in". It recognizes that the Catholic Church continues and goes forward through time as the Body of Christ, AND that our separated brethren (eg. the Orthodox) do have some element of sanctification, such as Sacred Scriptures, Baptism, Apostolic Succession, the Sacraments, etc.
True, and true.
Venerable Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadam, Allocution against the Errors of Rationalism and Indifferentism, December 9, 1854
It must indeed be held as being of Faith that nobody can be saved outside the Apostolic Roman Church, the only ark of salvation, into which if anybody does not enter he will perish by the flood; but it must nevertheless be likewise held for certain that those who suffer from ignorance of the true religion, provided that it is invincible, will not be held accountable for this.
Venerable Pope Pius IX, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, August 10, 1863
And here, beloved Sons and Venerable Brethren, it is necessary once more to mention and censure the serious error into which some Catholics have unfortunately fallen. For they are of the opinion that men who live in errors, estranged from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life. This is in direct opposition to Catholic teaching.
We all know that those who are afflicted with invincible ignorance with regard to our holy religion, if they carefully keep the precepts of the natural law that have been written by God in the hearts of all men, if they are prepared to obey God, and if they lead a virtuous and dutiful life, can attain eternal life by the power of divine light and grace. For God, Who reads comprehensively in every detail the minds and souls, the thoughts and habits of all men, will not permit, in accordance with His infinite goodness and mercy, anyone who is not guilty of a voluntary fault to suffer eternal torments (suppliciis).
However, also well-known is the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church, and that those who obstinately oppose the authority and definitions of the church, and who stubbornly remain separated form the unity of the Church and from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff (to whom the Saviour has entrusted the care of His vineyard), cannot attain salvation.
Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Letter Mystici Corporis, June 29, 1943
From a heart overflowing with love, we ask each and every one of them [non-Catholics] to correspond to the interior movements of grace, and to seek to withdraw from that state in which they cannot be sure of their salvation. For even though by an unconscious desire and longing they have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer, they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can be enjoyed only in the Catholic Church.
While Ann Barnhardt is correct in the following article that Bergoglio is a heretic, she is not correct in stating that a true pope can be judged or deposed.
The answer is two-fold. Firstly since Bergoglio, Ratzinger, Wojtyla, Luciani, Montini and Roncalli were all formal heretics before being elected to the office, by Divine Law they are ineleigible for the office and in no way can be head of Christ’s Church despite popular belief or the passage of time as declared by Pope Paul IV in the following Apostolic Constitution,
Secondly, if a true pope was to become a formal heretic after election, a heretic outside the Catholic Faith cannot be head of its body and BY HIS OWN ACT WOULD DEPOSE HIMSELF as stated by Pope Innocent III and the following Doctors of the Church.
Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio, Apostolic Constitution of His Holiness Pope Paul IV, February 15, 1559.
6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:-] that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy:
(i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless;
(ii) it shall not be possible for it to acquire validity (nor for it to be said that it has thus acquired validity) through the acceptance of the office, of consecration, of subsequent authority, nor through possession of administration, nor through the putative enthronement of a Roman Pontiff, or Veneration, or obedience accorded to such by all, nor through the lapse of any period of time in the foregoing situation;
(iii) it shall not be held as partially legitimate in any way;
(iv) to any so promoted to be Bishops, or Archbishops, or Patriarchs, or Primates or elevated as Cardinals, or as Roman Pontiff, no authority shall have been granted, nor shall it be considered to have been so granted either in the spiritual or the temporal domain;
(v) each and all of their words, deeds, actions and enactments, howsoever made, and anything whatsoever to which these may give rise, shall be without force and shall grant no stability whatsoever nor any right to anyone;
(vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power, without any exception in respect of those to which they may have been promoted or elevated before they deviated from the Faith, became heretics, incurred schism, or provoked or committed any or all of these.
Pope Innocent III (1198), Sermo 4:
“The Roman Pontiff has no superior but God. Who, therefore, could cast him out or trample him under foot – since of the pope it is said ‘gather thy flock into thy fold’? Truly, he should not flatter himself about his power, nor should he rashly glory in his honor and high estate, because the less he is judged by man, the more he is judged by God.
“Still the less can the Roman Pontiff glory [Minus dico] because he can be judged by men, or rather, can be shown to be already judged, if for example he should wither away into heresy; because he who does not believe is already judged.
“In such a case it should be said of him: ‘If salt should lose its savor, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot by men’.”
Code of Canon Law (1917), Canon 188.4:
Canon 188: “Ob tacitam renuntiationem ab ipso iure admissam quaelibet officia vacant ipso facto et sine
ulla declaratione, si clerus ... (4) a fide catholica publice defecerit.”
Canon 188: “There are certain causes which effect the tacit resignation of an office, which resignation is accepted in advance by operation of law, and hence is effective without any declaration. These causes are:
(4) if he has publicly fallen away from the Catholic faith.”
St. Robert Bellarmine: “For, in the first place, it is proven with arguments from authority and from reason that the manifest heretic is “ipso facto” deposed.”
St Robert Bellarmine, “De Romano Pontifice”, (”On the Roman Pontiff”), liber II, caput 30:
“For, in the first place, it is proven with arguments from authority and from reason that the manifest heretic is “ipso facto” deposed. The argument from authority is based on St. Paul (Titus, c. 3), who orders that the heretic be avoided after two warnings, that is, after showing himself to be manifestly obstinate - which means before any excommunication or judicial sentence. And this is what St. Jerome writes, adding that the other sinners are excluded from the Church by sentence of excommunication, but the heretics exile themselves and separate themselves by their own act from the body of Christ. Now, a Pope who remains Pope cannot be avoided, for how could we be required to avoid our own head? How can we separate ourselves from a member united to us?
“This principle is most certain. The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope, as Cajetan himself admits (ib. c. 26). The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member; now he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian (lib. 4, epist. 2), St. Athanasius (Scr. 2 cont. Arian.), St. Augustine (lib. de great. Christ. cap. 20), St. Jerome (contra Lucifer.) and others; therefore the manifest heretic cannot be Pope.
Est ergo quinta opinio vera, papam haereticum manifestum per se desinere esse papam et caput, sicut per se desinit esse christianus et membrum corporis Ecclesiae; quare ab, Ecclesia posse eum judicari et puniri. Haec est sententia omnium veterum Patrum, qui docent, haereticos manifestos mox amittere omnem jurisdictionem.
“Therefore, the true opinion is the fifth, according to which the Pope who is manifestly a heretic ceases by himself to be Pope and head, in the same way as he ceases to be a Christian and a member of the body of the Church; and for this reason he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the opinion of all the ancient Fathers, who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction,
Fundamentum hujus sententiae est. quoniam haereticus manifestos nullo modo est membrum Ecclesiae, idest, neque animo neque corpore, sive neque unione interna, neque externa.
“The foundation of this argument is that the manifest heretic is not in any way a member of the Church, that is, neither spiritually nor corporally, which signifies that he is not such by internal union nor by external union.
St. Alphonsus de Liguori on the fate of a heretical pope:
“Del resto, si Dio permettesse che un papa fosse notoriamente eretico e contumace, egli cesserebbe d’essere papa, e vacherebbe il pontificato.”
—”Verita della Fede”, part 3, ch. 8, no. 10.
In: Opere dommatiche di S. Alfonso de Liguori (Torino, G. Marietti, 1848), p. 720. (Opere di S. Alfonso Maria de Liguori, v. 8)
“For the rest, if God should permit that a Pope should become a notorious and contumacious heretic, he would cease to be Pope, and the pontificate would be vacant.”
St. Francis de Sales on papal infallibility and heresy:
“En l’ancienne loy le grand pretre ne portait pas le rational si non quand il estoit revestu des habits pontificaux et qu’il entroit devant le Seigneur. Ainsi ne disons nous pas que le pape en ses opinions particulieres ne puisse errer comme fit Jean XXII, ou etre du tout heretique comme peut etre fut Honorius. Or quand il est heretique expres *ipso facto* il tombe de son grade hors de l’Eglise et l’Eglise le doit ou priver comme disent quelques uns, ou le declarer prive de son siege apostolique et dire comme fit St. Pierre: Episcopatum eius accipiat alter. Quand il erre en sa particuliere opinion il le faut enseigner, adviser, convaincre comme on fit a Jean XXII le quel tant s’en faut qu’il mourut opiniatre ou que pendant sa vie il determina aucune chose touchant son opinion, que pendant qu’il faysoit l’inquisition requise pour determiner en matiere de foy, il mourut, au recit de son successeur en l’Extravagante qui se commence *Benedictus Deus.*”
St. Francis de Sales, The Catholic Controversy (Tan Books), p. 388 (part II, art. VI, ch. 14)
“Under the ancient law the High Priest did not wear the Rational except when he was vested in the pontifical robes and was entering before the Lord. Thus we do not say that the Pope cannot err in his private opinions, as did John XXII; or be altogether a heretic, as perhaps Honorius was. Now when he is explicitly a heretic, he falls ipso facto from his dignity out of the Church, and the Church must either deprive him, as some say, or declare him deprived, of his Apostolic See, and must say as St. Peter did: Let another take his bishopric (Acts I). When he errs in his private opinion he must be instructed, advised, convinced; as happened with John XXII, who was so far from dying obstinate or from determining anything during his life concerning his opinion, that he died whilest he was making the examination which is necessary for determining in a matter of faith, as his successor declared in the *Extravagantes* which begins Benedictus Deus.” (Ib. p. 305-306)
St. Thomas Aquinas on loss of jurisdiction by heretics:
Summa, 2a 2ae, q. 39, art. 3. (Utrum schismatici habeant aliquam potestatem)
“...Potestas autem iurisdictionis est quae ex simplici iniunctione hominis confertur; et talis potestas non immobiliter adhaeret; unde in schismaticis et haereticis non manet; unde non possunt nec absolvere, nec excommunicare, nec indulgentias facere, aut aliquid huiusmodi; quod si fecerint, nihil est actum.”
(Whether schismatics have any power.)
“...The power of jurisdiction, however [as opposed to the power of Orders, which he has just discussed], is that [power] which is conferred simply by the injunction of man; and this power does not adhere immovably; therefore it does not remain in schismatics and heretics. Hence they can neither absolve, nor excommunicate, nor grant indulgences, or anything of this sort. If they do this, the act is null.”
Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the sources of revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing.[6] Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian faith. - Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis, 1950
Pius XII teaches that the Catholic Church IS Christ's Church, not that it merely subsists in it. Other churches are not part of Christ's Church. Vatican II states it subsists in because that supports its false ecclesiology and false ecumenism.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
