Posted on 04/27/2016 8:41:02 AM PDT by Salvation
Employing Hebrews 13:17 is not sufficient or useful in this case, because it was not the men qualified to be elders in the already-existing assemblies on Crete (no one knows how they were originally planted). Men not qualified to be elders in the Methodist Church can be elders in the Presbyterian Churches, so using a broad-brush excuse will not work here and now nor there and then.
It's pretty obvious that Titus' authority did not come from a board of elders, nor from a home church. Stick to the answer, a specific one. If you would, it shouldn't take a long time. So:
Under what authority did Titus conduct himself in Crete?
Since you continue to have only assertions that have already been refuted, and you questions have been answered, then i am not going to play games with you.
It doesn't seem yet that you do not realize that the "refutations" you've offered so far are not refutations, but rather cant that enmeshes your theology in the episcopacy mode invented by the statist churches long ago. I am merely suggesting that you to sense that your position though alluring, is untenable.
Answer my question, please. Twice now you've ducked facing it.
It might help if your approach was a little less arch in style.
It is that attitude that does not befit a follower and learner of the Lord Jesus Christ, Who described himself as being lowly (toward men) and meek (toward His Father). It is not easy for any, for me as well.
What? Your response is insolence. Your questions were answered and your attempted arguments were were clearly refuted again and again, and then you stayed silent for a week and later popped up asking more questions, which were also answered but you failed to make an argument. It is that attitude that does not befit a follower and learner of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It remains that presbuteros (senior) episkopos (overseer) denote the same persons as regards chosen men in NT church, and are to be ordained in every place where there are churches. (Acts 20:17,28; Titus 1:5-7; Acts 14:23) And like as ordination flowed from Aaron to OT priests, so it flows from the apostles to presbuteros, who ordained Timothy. (1Tim. 4:14) Thus Timothy Titus operated in authority "over" the flock, preceding, as said, from Christ to the apostles to presbuteros. For these, besides apostles, are charged with its shepherding, its pastoral oversight and care, (Acts 20:17,28) "taking the oversight thereof," (1 Peter 5:2) to "take care of the church of God" (one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God? - 1 Timothy 3:4-5). Thus 1 Thes. 5:12 speaks of those who are over (preside) over the people, and Heb. 13:17 enjoins general submission to those shepherds who are governors/chiefs (hēgeomai) over the flock. And whose mandate includes, "feed the church," (Acts 20:28) and thus "preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine," and "speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority" in sound doctrine, even "sharply" in some cases. (2 Timothy 4:2; Titus 1:13, 2:15)
You had your chance to make an argument and i am done playing games with you and your blindness.
You need not worry about my blindness, Mister Haughty, for you're the only one playing a game. Regarding the time lapse, I just had some other rather pressing things to do. But the answer to the question is found in the last phrase of Titus 1:5, when it is fully developed, FYI.
That's three times you've ducked the direct, simple question. There's no "flow" involved.
More later, as I have time, whether you engage further or not. Your participation really doesn't matter.
Then i am not to blame for your blindness. Or lack of even an argument.
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