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We've Already Redefined Marriage, by Accepting Contraception
Catholic Culture ^ | 5/1/15 | Phil Lawler

Posted on 05/04/2015 6:14:42 AM PDT by marshmallow

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To: marshmallow

We redefined marriage when we gave it a tax break and made it a basis for government benefits distribution. Of course other groups wanted in on what they saw as a nifty scam after that.


81 posted on 05/06/2015 5:19:30 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (Heteropatriarchal Capitalist)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
oh...another flaw in the article thesis? The author even quotes the Bible about “not good for man to be alone” and “one flesh” - and then ignores that in God’s first statement about marriage, procreation has nothing to do with it. The author thinks that statement makes his case, but actually, it weakens it.

It seems to me then that your opinion is that the fundamental purpose of marriage is so a man not be alone. Is that your view ?

82 posted on 05/06/2015 6:29:08 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
What about allowing infertile people to get married.

Do you mean like Sarah or Hannah ?

83 posted on 05/06/2015 6:32:21 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
There is also a lot of historical realities that are simply ignored...the idea that a wedding gave a man and woman permission to have sex and procreate is a gross generalization, given that the implication is that societies have never given such permission without a wedding.

False; given that the implication is that Christians have never given such permission without a wedding, but if you are not a Christian I could understand that error.

84 posted on 05/06/2015 6:37:53 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
First, it’s absurd to say that the pill “severed” the relationship between marriage and procreation. At best, you can say it eroded it a little, but did not sever.

False; Contraceptive pill

Combined contraceptive pill: more than 99% effective if taken correctly. Less than 1 woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year while taking the combined pill. Progestogen-only pill: 99% effective if taken correctly. One woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year while taking the progestogen-only pill.

There is still a whole lot of married procreating going on out there.

In the 19th Century the US birth rates were much higher, perhaps 7 live births, while in the 20th Century it fell to about 2. Coincidentally, people learned to use more artificial means to prevent pregnancy, culminating with the potions (drugs) that are available now. The institution of marriage within the US has fallen, and has been extended to homosexual couples since the don't want to be alone, and their primary purpose is pleasure rather than procreation, not unlike their heterosexual countrymen who hold the same view.

85 posted on 05/06/2015 6:57:38 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
It seems to me then that your opinion is that the fundamental purpose of marriage is so a man not be alone. Is that your view ?

Well, it was apparently God's fundamental purpose, so I'm good with it.

86 posted on 05/06/2015 7:05:44 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: af_vet_1981

you keep citing individual factoids and them ramming them into your absurd thesis.


87 posted on 05/06/2015 7:06:29 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: af_vet_1981

you make my case with 83, not yours. But again, really foolish and absurd irrelevant analogy.


88 posted on 05/06/2015 7:07:10 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: af_vet_1981

Really low hateful and sin filled accusation on your part, indicating an evil pharisaical spirit about yourself. Knowing history does not mean one agrees with it, or disagrees with it, necessarily - it is just the removal of ignorance.


89 posted on 05/06/2015 7:08:41 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: af_vet_1981

You might need a refund on your Bible. While it had Sarah and Hannah, your copy apparently missed Song of Solomon, or perhaps, all the chapters and books about Solomon.


90 posted on 05/06/2015 7:09:58 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
You might need a refund on your Bible. While it had Sarah and Hannah, your copy apparently missed Song of Solomon, or perhaps, all the chapters and books about Solomon.

The Bible is my inheritance. Solomon had many wives and concubines, leaving the LORD for other gods because of his love of many women, something not foreign to the Pill Generation. The (former) pastor of the Mars Hill faith community in Seattle also argued for maximum pleasure, so to speak.

91 posted on 05/06/2015 7:20:55 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Well, it was apparently God's fundamental purpose, so I'm good with it.

The fundamental purpose of marriage was that a man and a woman become one flesh, multiply themselves (have children), and exercise dominion over the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Genesis, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses twenty seven to twenty eight,
Genesis, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses eighteen to twenty five,
Matthew, Catholic chapter nineteen, Protestant verses four to five,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

92 posted on 05/06/2015 8:05:42 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: marshmallow

not everybody marries to pro-create. nor can everyone do so.


93 posted on 05/06/2015 8:06:43 AM PDT by morphing libertarian (defund Obama care and amnesty. Impeach for Benghazi and IRS and fast and furious.)
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To: af_vet_1981

You obviously ignore or intentionally misinterpret part of your “inheritance.”


94 posted on 05/06/2015 8:20:13 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: af_vet_1981

sorry dude, you did not pull the “fundamental” verse on marriage - you found another verse - one that only indicates that procreation is a part of being male and female...there is NO mention of marriage in your verse.

Fail.


95 posted on 05/06/2015 8:21:30 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (www.FireKarlRove.com NOW)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
sorry dude, you did not pull the “fundamental” verse on marriage - you found another verse - one that only indicates that procreation is a part of being male and female...there is NO mention of marriage in your verse.

Fail.

Is it your learned opinion that Jesus was mistaken when he referred back to the scriptures I posted while discussing the law of divorce ? Is it your view that one can be divorced without being married ? Is it then your view Adam and Eve were not married and their children illegitimate, or do you not believe children conceived out of wedlock are illegitimate ?

96 posted on 05/06/2015 8:26:29 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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