Posted on 04/01/2015 10:22:59 AM PDT by amessenger4god
That’s the point: Christians are raptured BEFORE the tribulation. When these things happen, we’re already gone.
We’re in complete agreement. This part is interesting to me: People used to ask me all the time if Obama was the antichrist (actually, they meant “the beast”). I would tell them that either he is the incompetent he appears to be, in which case he will go down hard, or he is the beast and God will be the one to take him down.
Hence my tag line. They both end the same way for the US and the world.
The woman is Israel, read it in context.
You ain’t seen nothing yet!
This is laughable compared to what the real tribulation will be.
End Times Ping
“Pretrib is just an excuse to escape persecution - especially for Americans who believe they are the only Christians that matter in the world and the world revolves around them.”
You lie!
John 14:3
1 Thess, 4:16-18
1 Cor. 15:51-53
Matthew 25:13
Prove me wrong with scriptures! All else is projection.
Really? The “Church” flees for that amount of time?
The Church is gone by Revelation 5. Those who flee to the wilderness is Israel. When Jesus is talking about fleeing to the mountains, he’s not talking to Christians or the Church—it’s Israel who he’s talking to.
I used to be firmly in the pre-trib rapture camp. Now, not so much. The necessity of 3 comings for pre-trip rapture to be true is a problem. Our pastor explains it “a second coming in two parts”, I think it is a rather silly stretch.
Exactly....Christians need to understand that God is about to burn this whole house down and He will remove all of His children from the house before it burns.
He did it with Noah, He did it with Lot, and He’ll do it again with whoever is Sealed By Him when He decides to send Jesus for us.
There’s a big difference between persecution and His wrath & judgement. His children won’t suffer the latter, we have been suffering the former since the beginning of time.
People back when thought that Hitler was either the anti-Christ or the Beast and they weren’t far off. I tell my friends to watch Israel.
One friend actually told me that when Yeshua comes for His church that it’s not really the Second Coming because He hadn’t touched down on Earth so that doesn’t count.
I don’t believe the Bible calls it the Second Coming. What I see is that the Bible describes Jesus taking the Christians (alive and dead) up to be with him in Heaven.
And then it describes Jesus as setting up His Kingdom, over all the nations on earth.
It’s as simple as two descriptions for two different things that Jesus is doing. You don’t even have to invoke the human language of “Second Coming” — just the Bible’s language of “what Jesus does” — no more and no less ... :-) ...
Well ... I might think so, but apparently others don’t ... :-) ...
“This means that the pre-tribulational rapture was positively taught no later than the early 7th century.”
It still flatly contradicts the Bible, so it doesn’t really matter. You can find heretical writings just as old as the oldest NT manuscripts, but they are still heretical.
So who are the living believers that are transformed at the same time as the dead Christians at the 1st resurrection, if they have all been raptured 3.5 years before?
Nations rise, nations fall. Nothing to see here.
I think corrupt countries actually LIKE to make people belive in a pre-trib rapture.
That way the decent people are tricked into thinking that Jesus is gonna beam them up to heaven like scotty on star trek.
This makes the good people more complacent so that evil can run amok more unchecked.
So who are the living believers that are transformed at the same time as the dead Christians at the 1st resurrection, if they have all been raptured 3.5 years before?
i.e. in mid-trib. They were not raptured 3.5 years before. They are raptured “in the middle”. Hence the name “mid-trib”. But it’s not really the middle. It is after 3.5 years of tribulation (I see it as “the wrath of satan”) but before the 3.5 years of “wrath of God”.
But again, it’s only my opinion. There is not “answer sheet” at the end of the bible for bible prophesy.
“You are applying pre-trib and mid-trib concepts in a mishmash.”
No, I don’t believe in either. I am challenging you to reconcile your doctrine with what the Bible actually says.
“i.e. in mid-trib. They were not raptured 3.5 years before. They are raptured “in the middle”. Hence the name “mid-trib”. But it’s not really the middle. It is after 3.5 years of tribulation (I see it as “the wrath of satan”) but before the 3.5 years of “wrath of God”.”
Yes, that may be your opinion, but the Bible says that the living and dead believers are all transformed at the same time, when Christ returns, and Revelation tells us Christ returns at the end of the tribulation. So, if the “rapture” happens midway through the tribulation, who are these living believers that the Bible tells us are transformed at the first resurrection when Christ returns?
“Exactly....Christians need to understand that God is about to burn this whole house down and He will remove all of His children from the house before it burns.”
It simply isn’t true that God is going to destroy everything, at least, not until long after the tribulation. There is an intervening period of 1000 years from the end of the tribulation until the old heaven and earth pass away, and in the meantime, the Bible tells us that people and nations (and plants and animals) are all living on the earth, not destroyed in flames.
Even though God pours his wrath out on the Earth, not everyone and everything is destroyed, and the people who teach that are lying in order to promote their false doctrine.
Then what would you call it when the Bible speaks of the coming of Yeshua? When Yeshua comes back to claim His church and they meet him in the air, Yeshua keeps coming to Earth. He doesn’t go back with them then return yet again. The Bible speaks only of two instances when Yeshua is on Earth; first time as the Suffering Messiah, the second time as the Conquering Messiah.
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