Christ Alone is the Only Way of Salvation

Reformed Bibliophile ^ | September 11, 2011 | J.C. Ryle

[LearsFool]

No, not trying to lead you down a rabbit trail. Just wanting you to think this through carefully. :-)

If I read you right, you understand that in order for Naaman’s leprosy to be cured, he needed to dip in the Jordan by God’s command. He had to do what God said, in the way God said, for the purpose God said.

Otherwise, he’d have just been taking a dip in the crick. Whatcha think?

[Resettozero]

No, not trying to lead you down a rabbit trail. Just wanting you to think this through carefully. :-) If I read you right, you understand that in order for Naaman’s leprosy to be cured, he needed to dip in the Jordan by God’s command. He had to do what God said, in the way God said, for the purpose God said. Otherwise, he’d have just been taking a dip in the crick. Whatcha think?

I think I don't see what Naaman's heeding or not heeding the word of God's prophet has to do with this thread's main topic. Your point is too vague and obscure for me to comprehend so far. But I bet it is a wonderful point for you to understand. I think we are not disagreeing on anything, though.

[LearsFool]

I don’t mean to be obscure. The question I’m addressing (and maybe you knew the answer already) is whether baptism has its intended effect (remission of sins) when the person is baptized for some other reason.

I’m sure you can think of plenty of other examples besides Naaman. Like Joshua and the Israelites marching around Jericho. (If they had just gone out for a daily stroll, and an extra long stroll on day 7...) Or Noah. (”Hey honey, let’s take the kids for a little boat ride!”)

[knarf]

Additionally .... if baptism had ANYTHING to do with being saved .... WHY was Jesus baptised ?

I've had that replied to as;
It is a sign from Jesus to show us how to be saved

... and I conclude;

Exactly ... it is a sign ... a symbol of recognition ... like a wedding ring ...

Not for ME ... but to others, and certainly not to God, because we were saved WAAYYYY before we get to the water.

[RnMomof7]

Better to stick with the apostles of Jesus Christ, and leave the followers of men to their own inventions.

So you are leaving Rome ?

[LearsFool]

I live in Texas.

[knarf]

PFFTT !

You owe me a keyboard

[LearsFool]

:-)

[BlackAdderess]

1 Peter 3 is quite fascinating, in it is an intriguing reference to some of what Christ was doing after death and with reference to the flood. Have you ever tried reading the Amplified Bible? It doesn’t flow (and Psalms wouldn’t be much fun), but it does offer clarity.

“21 And baptism, which is a figure [of their deliverance], does now also save you [from inward questioning and fears], not by the removing of outward body filth [bathing], but by [providing you with] the answer of a good and clear conscience (inward cleanliness and peace) before God [because you are demonstrating what you believe to be yours] through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

We are under new management, so yes, we obey God, but it is important to understand that our salvation rests not on this but on the redemption offered by God. A “figure” is a representation of something else, and that is vitally important to remember.

[LearsFool]

When reading the Amplified Bible, it’s important to remember that the stuff in [brackets] and (parentheses) is not part of the Bible. It’s not what the inspired writers wrote, but has been inserted by uninspired men to explain what they THINK the inspired writers meant.

I’m not opposed to hearing what men think the Bible means. But let them explain why, and make their case. If it fits what the Bible says, and helps me understand what the Bible writers wrote, then it’s benficial. The Amplified Bible skips over this important step, so I skip over the Amplified Bible. :-)

[BlackAdderess]

I’m not referencing the stuff in the brackets but the correct translation of the word “figure” which most translations stumble over and consequently can be deceptive on. Ignore the stuff in the brackets, it’s choppy but it comes to the same.

[LearsFool]

I see what you're saying now. Okay, let's read it without the commentary (vv. 20-21):

"who long before in the days of Noah had been disobedient, when God’s patience waited during the building of the ark in which a few, actually eight in number, were saved through water. And baptism, which is a figure, does now also save you, not by the removing of outward body filth, but by the answer of a good and clear conscience before God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Now we can note the resemblances between Noah's salvation and the salvation of the sinner from sin:

1. There is salvation in both cases - Noah from drowning, and the sinner from sin and condemnation.

2. Water is used in both cases.

3. In each case, the water is the means or instrument of the salvation.

[redleghunter]

The Amplified Bible does a good job of addressing the more difficult verses of the Bible. Difficult in the manner of a ‘clean’ translation from Greek to English. The word order in most English Bibles for the 1 Peter 3 quote seem to be awkward. Especially dealing with parenthetical phrases from one language to the other.

[BlackAdderess]

The figure means that the water baptism which we do undertake is a representation of something else which is beyond our power which is through the resurrection of Christ. The water baptism then appears to be more a way to show which team we are on, the symbolism is less important than the faith behind it in accepting the gift of salvation through Christ’s sacrifice. Those people in the Ark were saved by an absence of water which underscores that it is not the symbol that saves us, it is the acceptance that what God says is true in spite of any appearance to the contrary.

Numbers 21 contains another Old Testament illustration of this principle.

[BlackAdderess]

Very true, they dispense with style and focus on what is actually there, which I like.

[LearsFool]

The reference you gave to Numbers 21 is an excellent one. Here's Jesus' reference to it:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up" - John 3:14

You've spotted the "figure" aspect of both cases. (The Greek word, by the way, is antitupos, from which we get our English word "anti-type", and is variously translated as "a true likeness", "the like figure", "is like that", "which corresponds to this", etc. Take a look here.)

So was Jesus lifted up? Or was He just speaking symbolically?

[BlackAdderess]

Jesus was lifted up on the cross and was subsequently lifted up from the grave, the serpent on a stick was symbolic foreshadowing (for want of a better word).

[LearsFool]

So both actually took place. Neither one was merely figurative, they were both actual events. They're similar in the lifting up.

Likewise, both Noah's salvation and the salvation of the sinner take place. They're similar in the element of water.

This is why Peter says water saved Noah, and water baptism saves us.

It's not "a way to show which team we are on", but how we sign up for that team. It's not that "the symbolism is less important than the faith behind it in accepting the gift of salvation through Christ’s sacrifice." Rather, baptism is an act of obedience to God in faith, and by it we receive the gift of salvation made available through Christ's sacrifice.

That's why Peter says baptism saves us: "And baptism, which is a figure, does now also save you" (Amplified Bible)

[redleghunter]

I know two theologians one a ThD who likes the AMP Bible. For the very reason you give.

[BlackAdderess]

So then we can agree it is not the symbol that saves a person but obedient acceptance of the mercy of God?

There is nothing inherent in the water that saves, as God saved based on the acceptance of His gift both by keeping Noah and his household dry while submerging the rest of the world and by submerging the believer while keeping the rest of the world dry. You would do just as well to look at a snake on a stick if that is what God says to do.

By the way, I am baptised :)