Posted on 02/20/2015 12:24:08 PM PST by Gamecock
Presuming that one is saved is ... perhaps sinful.
Pride is a sin.
We are weak vessels, and easily deceived, even with gross physical means like chemicals. Mushrooms and LSD can lead to misleading “religious” convictions. So can obsessive contemplation of ones spiritual state. There are many forms of madness and eccentricity.
The proper approach is a humble doubt in our spiritual state.
They were born again and Spirit-filled. It is sad that you guys are taking it worse than our friends did. They laughed, we laughed and agreed that yeah maybe Catholics do more know more about the Bible than we are generally given credit for.
Yes.
Yes. But the issues addressed were theological & structural ones.
Allow me to summarize the article from what I saw...Let me first say what the article commended about Catholics and Catholicism:
1. It said that it's NOT "a demonic institution."
2. It said Catholics were "people who were very, very nice."
3. Catholics were "very kind" to this pastor when his elder sister died.
4. "When I was an unmannerly and disobedient brat at school the Mother Superior attempted to discipline me and show me a better way."
5. "When my family arrived in a new and strange land (California), the nuns befriended us, fed us, connected us with others who could help us, invited us to a New Years Day dinner, and in the cosy confines of the convent introduced our family to the unsettling phenomenon of North American football."
6. "A Catholic family provided us with a house and more tokens of kindness than I could possibly relate."
7. "Catholics have touched my life in ways that I shall never forget and shall always appreciate.'
8. "...it is so sad when Protestants are strident and unkind in their efforts to win Catholics to Christ! ‘Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one,’ said Paul (Colossians 4:6a). How often our apologetic has been ‘salty’ in an unsanctified sense!"
9. "The Appeal of Love I believe that my neighbour, the Catholic, needs Christian love. It was by their love that I recognized the true followers of Jesus Christ."
10. "I knew that there was a God. I had learned from the Catholic Church that he was a righteous God and a God who judges."
11. "Whatever I say to my Catholic neighbour, I want it to be accompanied by deeds of kindness."
12. "...I want them to have no doubt that I love them. When I speak the gospel to them I want my actions to speak just as loudly, telling them that they are loved of God and loved by his people. I want them to see the Lord’s face in mine."
13. He comments quite positively on Catholic "solemnity, the sobriety, the sense that we were in the presence of Someone wholly ‘other’ than ourselves. It was striking because that sense is only a distant memory for most evangelicals, and many feel well rid of it. Many are rushing headlong to embrace a full-filled, non-threatening, cheery and up-beat approach to worship. rbid that we should feel any fear and sense of humiliation...it was striking to sit in the Catholic Church. While it is true that some Catholic churches are adopting the evangelical prescription for success, in this particular parish there was still a sense of solemnity. I felt I was in the presence of the Holy One, and it made me long for days when evangelicals would flee from the Ringling Brothers approach to church and remember that we worship our ‘Father who is in heaven!’ I believe my Catholic neighbour is struck by the loss of awe in evangelical churches, and is left unimpressed."
The theological "attacks" focused on:
a. ..."a system and in the grip of a religion that is so far from true Biblical Christianity."
b. issues of authority (the Bible alone) and of salvation (by faith alone) & grace vs. works-righteousness & the pride & even Pharisaical legalism that tends to accompany it.
c. his background of saying "hail mary's" and rosary ritualism
d. "...I recall the days when I knew by experience that there was no peace for the wicked, that there was no rest in the round of activities prescribed by Rome, that there was deep within a longing for a different, a better way.
You said: Don’t think the attacked parties should respond as they see it?
Indeed, respond...
But did you address a, b, c, d above in your response? (I didn't see it)
Instead, the grounds of your response proved to be the exact same thing you accused others of doing:
You attacked the...
...stewardship of others' time...
...inward motivation -- as if we know what that is for others ("insecurity of faith" is the way you implied it)
...comments as being "demonically" sourced...when here the author said that the Catholic institution is NOT demonic...IoW, you escalated it all...
...direction of even challenging other Christians' systems' beliefs at all -- and if you don't believe other Christians are to be challenge other Christians, then why were you doing that?
It's almost like saying you don't believe in revenge, but then proceed on to a vengeful reaction.
A former Catholic expresses concern about your eternal destiny and you take that as an attack?
Sure. How would you look at it if some Catholic or other Christian told you that you need to change your faith to be like his? I’m very happy with my Catholic faith - always have been. I have never seen any need to tell you or anyone else to follow my lead.
I’m really tired of the Catholic-bashers that seem to proliferate at each full moon. It’s annoying and more than slightly mental.
Well, I’m amazed. You have expended untold hours scribbling away in a pointless effort to win me over to your point of view.
The real effect of which is to make me - and any other normal person edge away from you and whatever beliefs you associate yourself with.
If you feel that you have the need to change somebody’s beliefs, buy yourself a ticket to Syria or Iraq or Libya and have at it.
Not really...an hour at best...
...a pointless effort to win me over to your point of view.
No real intent in that direction (I would have focused on other areas if that had been the case)
My real intent was to hold up a mirror so you could see yourself...and how you behaved in the exact same way as those you accused. (I can't force people to look in the mirror)
I don't try to "make people receptive" to anything I write; but hey, if I can get a poster to at least either stop or review their attacking other posters on exactly the same grounds they accuse others of engaging in, then none of what I wrote was ultimately "pointless."
The real effect of which is to make me - ... edge away from you and whatever beliefs you associate yourself with.
You know, you're not in some middle-ground camp. Either you're in Christ...and if so, why would I even need to lure you to any of my beliefs? If you're not in Christ, then I can't push you any further away...so stop with this "middle ground" "edge away" nonsense.
If you feel that you have the need to change somebody’s beliefs, buy yourself a ticket to Syria or Iraq or Libya and have at it.
All marketers are trying to change people's mindsets...(you not only don't tell them to head off to the Middle East, but you buy their products...en masse, too!)
And you wouldn't have posted what you said in post #21 unless you thought somebody might buy into at least some of it...otherwise, why bother posting at all?
So, again take your own advice & plan a certain vacation destination...if you ever decide to be consistent in your application of your standards, that is.
(God forbid we might actually have Christian models in this world! No wonder kids have so few spiritual mentors in this world! So many people abdicating being responsible Christians in whatever sphere of influence they operate...perhaps out of some ill-based fear that somebody think they are attempting to spiritually clone others)
No, it’s probably not nice. But it depends on my antagonist’s level of commitment. Whacking away at a fellow conservative’s Catholicism is really easy but pointless.
They want to spread the Gospel to the people that really need it, the Middle East is risky but a much higher commitment.
More self-refuting rhetoric.
If it's bad to "bash" people of other faiths or sects, then that also includes labeling somebody else as a "basher."
To call people "bashers" is to negatively reference them;
may or may not be accurate because "bash" is rooted in a physically violent root basis;
and is essentially itself an act of bashing other religionists...which is what you were scorning and wagging your finger as a "no-no" to begin with...
If you don't want others to "bash," lead by example:
Don't negatively reference them...
You miss the point completely, so I’ll write in clearer terms. My faith is excellent. My children are well-schooled, reverent and spiritual.
I have zero need or patience for screeds of ill-disguised hatred from others claiming to be Christians attacking other Christians.
I made the mistake years ago of attending a Protestant buddy’s services in a sort of attempt at understanding his view of faith. Somewhere in the middle of his preacher’s mind-numbing 45 minute sermon, that preacher launched into a nasty attack against Catholic beliefs. I stood up and asked that preacher why he found it necessary to say things like that about my church. He mumbled something about “how I needed to be saved..”.
I am saved just fine - and I have little or no patience for small- minded bigots using Christianity as a cudgel against others. That isn’t Christianity, that’s the devil in close proximity.
Sure. Sorry, Bud - but when someone comes out with tripe about something you hold dear, you respond.
Expect it,
One person’s opinion only.
I have done more to spread the Gospel than you have, I’ll bet.
I spent a couple of years in Israel, Egypt, in the Former Soviet Union and A couple of priests and I have made many conversions to date.
That’s where the rubber meets the road, Bud - not typing nonsense here at home to antagonize other Christians.
Well, I genuinely praise God for that.
And I don't cite the following verse aimed at you; it's a reminder to me to leave any accomplishments I've done on my resume':
"We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise." (Apostle Paul, 2 Corinthians 10:12)
...not typing nonsense here at home to antagonize other Christians.
If Jesus would have had a keyboard & computer network, I'm sure a few John 8 & Matthew 23 type of comments would have come across as "antagonizing" other Jews.
And if you are indeed so "anti-antagonizing" of other Christians, then please explain why you twice referenced in post #21 that the thread itself (or comments) was "the work of the devil?"
Isn't engaging in escalating religious antagonism part of the problem you cite of Christians antagonizing others?
If that's a problem you identify, why are you contributing to it and even escalating it?
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