Salvation by grace alone through faith alone excludes works righteousness

Possessing the Treasure ^ | February 16, 2015 | Mike Ratliff

[Zuriel]

Amen!

[ScottfromNJ]

“You do realize the context, I hope...

Paul is writing “unto the churches of Galatia” (1:2), or anyone displaying their situation: Having been born again (obedience to Acts 2:38; it IS from heaven, and not of men.) some chose to continue in the works of the Law, which was done away with by the Lord.”

Yes the Galatians scripture is clear and in agreement with what Christ accomplished. Did you have a question or some concern about my simply posting it?

[RnMomof7]

hmm, didn’t think I was breaking any rules, but then I don’t make or interpret the rules.

By what measuring rod do you determine if the rules are correct?

[LearsFool]

The answer to both of those is faith.

So you're saying God's power didn't cause the walls of Jericho to fall?

And you're saying faith wasn't necessary for the walls to fall?

No offense, but that's unbiblical nonsense. You can't support it from the Scriptures.

[JSDude1]

Thanks metmom, I have been blessed by this thread and so many other Christians proclaiming the truth ;-)!

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

By what measuring rod do you determine if the rules are correct

---

as the saying goes, he who pays the piper calls the tune...

in this case, the “rules” are made by the owners of FR and rightly so since it is their site and they are free to make whatever rules they wish. further, it is my understanding that a RM has been appointed to interpret those rules and enforce them. so whatever the RM decides by definition must be “correct” and that is the measuring rod I use. ( even if I disagree with the interpretation! )

[metmom]

The fruit of the Spirit is this.

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

The emphasis on works is emphasis on the wrong thing as fruit.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Any old sinner can do good works and many of them do and Jesus said that there would be those who appealed to their works, even to the miraculous, and He will tell them that He NEVER KNEW THEM.

They were never even saved to begin with.

[metmom]

People would be better served reading Scripture than opinion pieces of men.

That way they’ll be SURE of getting Truth.

[Zuriel]

**Yes the Galatians scripture is clear and in agreement with what Christ accomplished.**

It is in agreement with what Christ had done for the Galatian churches, who had already been preached to and converted by the Lord’s ordained plan. But, my concern is the usage of epistle verses (written to people who already know how to be born again) to preach salvation, while ignoring the commandments of the Lord for conversion, which are found in his commissions, and in the instructions given in Acts 2:38.

For what has the Lord accomplished if people ignore (don’t have faith in) his own words, and the words of his personally taught apostles, when being instructed the way of rebirth?

[CynicalBear]

>>So you're saying God's power didn't cause the walls of Jericho to fall?<<

Please show where I said "God's power didn't cause the walls of Jericho to fall".

>>And you're saying faith wasn't necessary for the walls to fall?<<

You didn't read my post?

>>No offense, but that's unbiblical nonsense. You can't support it from the Scriptures.<<

Hebrews 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

Hebrews 11:27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king's anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible.

Luke 17:19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Matthew 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Hebrews 11:31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

1 Corinthians 16:13 Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.

2 Corinthians 5:6-7 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight.

[metmom]

The spirit has to be regenerated before any good can come out of man.

No man can reform himself by following the Lord’s commands for conversion. You don’t do works TO get saved, you do them as a result of being saved.

Paul was out killing people until Jesus knocked him off his horse and saved him. What good works did he have to his credit for conversion?

All our righteousness is filthy rags in God’s sight.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

That way they’ll be SURE of getting Truth

---

absolutely, that is a sure way of getting the truth. but, how can you be sure you UNDERSTAND the truth?
for example, a Presbyterian and Baptist both will claim to believe in sola scriptura, the Presbyterian will find infant baptism in the Scriptures, the Baptist doesn’t.
only one can be right, yet both will claim the Scriptures as their authority.

luckily, Acts 8 shows us God has provided the answer and a SURE way to get and understand the truth.

[LearsFool]

You're speaking of works without faith.

I'm talking about working faith, perfected faith, saving faith, fruitful faith, living faith.

Jesus said that there would be those who appealed to their works, even to the miraculous, and He will tell them that He NEVER KNEW THEM.
They were never even saved to begin with.

Yes, those people will be surprised by their condemnation. They call Jesus "Lord, Lord", but they don't obey Him. They do lots of works, but they don't obey Him.

This isn't like some recipe for mud, that calls for two ingredients: dirt and water. If Naaman had dipped four times instead of seven, would that have cleansed him? It would've been works, but not works of faith.

If Joshua and the Israelites had decided to get in an extra round of marching on day 1 so they could skip day 2, would the walls have fallen? No, because the marching would not have been of faith.

Similarly, those who are baptized "because it's a good thing to do" don't get their sins washed away, because it's not a work of faith. Those who do things commanded in the Bible, but do them for a reason other than God's reason, or in a way other than God's way, are not obeying God, because they're not acting in faith.

[LearsFool]

Sure, I read your post. I even quoted from your post. Here again is what you said:

The answer to both of those is faith.

Those answers are unbiblical nonsense.

[metmom]

absolutely, that is a sure way of getting the truth. but, how can you be sure you UNDERSTAND the truth?

The Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth of Jesus lied when He said that.

Don't you believe the words of Jesus?

for example, a Presbyterian and Baptist both will claim to believe in sola scriptura, the Presbyterian will find infant baptism in the Scriptures, the Baptist doesn’t. only one can be right, yet both will claim the Scriptures as their authority.

Yup and someone has yet to give one example of an infant being baptized anywhere in the NT. It's built on supposition, just like the Catholic position.

luckily, Acts 8 shows us God has provided the answer and a SURE way to get and understand the truth.

Well, it's sure not the magisterium cause that's never even mentioned in the Bible.

And then you have the problem of who is going to interpret the magisterium.

The Catholic church can't even agree on it's own teachings, it changes doctrine and dogma from one council to another, and Catholics are all over the map about what they believe.

Having the catechism is no guarantee in the least of ensuring consistency and constancy of *the faith*.

Roman Catholicism, the church that never always changes.

[LearsFool]

I’ve asked you these questions before, and you declined to answer. Let’s see whether you’ll answer them this time:

What caused the walls of Jericho to fall?
A. Faith
B. Marching
C. God’s power
D. All of the above
E. None of the above

Which element(s) was/were unnecessary?
A. Faith
B. Marching
C. God’s power
D. All of the above
E. None of the above

[Zuriel]

**The spirit has to be regenerated before any good can come out of man.**

If we are pointing out that good works, such as giving to the needy, helping the afflicted, etc. only happen by souls regenerated by God, then I know a couple of nice friendly athiests to introduce you to. Regeneration is this:

Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

**No man can reform himself by following the Lord’s commands for conversion.**

Is Acts 2:38 from heaven (the Lord’s commands for rebirth), or of men (following man-made works)? Do we hear it and obey it, or not?

“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18

Preaching salvation in Jesus Christ, apart from his instructions on conversion, is preaching a ‘hole’ gospel (something missing). The Son prayed to the Father that souls would “believe on me through their (the apostles) word.” Jn 17:20

This preaching began in Acts 2, culuminating in Peter responding to the request: “What shall we do?”. Then we see Peter enact the commissions (found in: Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:16; Luke 24:47; John 20:23) by saying: “..Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.

[metmom]

Salvation under the new covenant is by grace through faith in Christ.

Good works were prepared in advance to believers to walk in them.

Regeneration is what saves, not adding works to intellectual assent.

A person who accepts Christ on their deathbed, is as saved as the person who did it as a child and lived their entire lives in service and obedience to God.

Works are not mandatory for salvation, either before or after.

[LearsFool]

See? I told you they couldn't answer those two questions.

To you, the answers are so simple as to make it seem a useless exercise. That's because the gospel is simple. It's so simple, in fact, that those who reject it are easy to spot with just a couple of simple questions. (Reminds me of Matt. 21:23-27.)

And isn't that how Jesus said it would be? The preaching of the gospel would sort people into two groups: the saved and the damned. And He told us how we can know who is in which group.

[boatbums]

In the case of Jericho, the obedience was marching. Why was marching obedience? Because God had commanded it. What would’ve happened if the Israelites had said, “We’re not going to march, we’re just going to have faith only”? That’s the question the “faith only” folks refuse to answer. They’ll never answer it because the answer exposes their false teaching. So no, I don’t think it’s a useless exercise. It exposes these false teachers, so that others can be on their guard lest their faith end up as dead as the devils’.

You must not read these threads very often if you think "faith only folks" refuse to answer the age-old question of works in salvation. It gets answered continually! The REAL false teaching comes from those who imagine the works they do contribute to their justification or that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was insufficient to save us to the uttermost. No one denies that our actions demonstrate the kind of faith we have - that's what James is speaking to. When he asks, "Can faith save him?", he is so obviously talking about the brother who is naked and hungry and another says, "I'll pray for you! Have faith!.", and does nothing to help his brother in need. Those who insist James is implying our eternal salvation depends upon faith PLUS our good works, deny grace. They are fallen from grace, Paul said, who seek to be justified by their works.

All the examples you gave of the "heroes" of faith spoken of in the book of Hebrews were those who had genuine, saving faith and it showed in what they were willing to do IN faith. You cannot deny that Scripture repeatedly states that faith is what justifies and NOT works. Abraham was justified by faith and not by his deeds because deeds can never take away our sins. Only by the shedding of blood is there atonement - Jesus paid the penalty for our sins by His sacrifice and there is NOTHING we add to that. Our simple act of faith - receiving the gift of God which IS eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord - is what God requires and HE knows our hearts. Plenty of people fake it by acting religious and doing good deeds, but God sees the heart and knows without our deeds whether or not we have the kind of faith that saves us.

Genuine, life-changing faith WILL result in good deeds, but these deeds cannot and DO NOT save us. Once this truth finally dawns on us, we will never again question the Gospel.