Posted on 02/10/2015 12:42:21 PM PST by RnMomof7
Gospel ping
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How many Hell Marys a day did he say?
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Not likely any. The “Hail Mary” prayer was developed over 4 centuries, beginning about 500 years later, in the western Church tradition.
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I was just pointing out that what “our catholics” believe has no relationship whatsoever to what men of God have believed.
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The Greeks have their own brand of Marian piety, no less Marian than that of the West.
The short uber-gloss version: Luther said that original sin destroyed human nature beyond fixing. Rome says that original sin damaged human nature, but grace can fix it. Constantinople says that original sin damaged the world, but didn't intrinsically damage human nature.
There was no way St. Chrysostom was believed in Salvation by faith alone. I have read through a few of his homilies. First off what a prolific writer. Secondly, you are cherry picking these verses that you posted. Read this from homily on the gospel of John. He had a faith/works salvation just like the Orthodox and the Catholic.
“He that believes in the Son has everlasting life [John 3:36]... “Is it ENOUGH, then, to BELIEVE in the Son,” someone will say, “in order to have everlasting life?” BY NO MEANS! Listen to Christ declare this Himself when He says, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven” [Matt 7:21]; and the blasphemy against the Spirit is alone sufficient to cast him into hell. But why should I speak of a PART of our teaching? For if a man BELIEVE rightly in the Father and in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, but does not LIVE RIGHTLY, his faith will avail him NOTHING TOWARD SALVATION. (Homilies on John 31:1)
John Chrysostom believed that faith and works were necessary for salvation. It cannot get get any clearer than that I am sorry...
“Hail, Kecharitomene, unreaped land of heavenly grain.
Hail, Kecharitomene, virgin mother, true and unfailing vine.
Hail, Kecharitomene, faultless one carrying the immutable divinity.
Hail, Kecharitomene, spacious room for the uncontainable nature.
Hail, Kecharitomene, new bride of a widowed world and incorrupt offspring.
Hail, Kecharitomene, weaving as creature a crown not made by hands.
Hail, Kecharitomene, habitation of holy fire.
Hail, Kecharitomene, return of the fugitive world.
Hail, Kecharitomene, lavish nourisher for the hungry creation.
Hail, Kecharitomene, interminable grace of the holy virgin.
Hail, Kecharitomene, lampstand adorned with all virtue and with inextinguishable
light brighter than even the sun.
Hail, Kecharitomene, challenger of spirits.
Hail, Kecharitomene, wise bearer of spiritual glory.
Hail, Kecharitomene, golden urn, contaning heavenly manna.
Hail, Kecharitomene, dispensing sweet drink ever flowing to fill those who are thirsty.
Hail, Kecharitomene, spiritual sea who holds Christ, the heavenly pearl.
Hail, Kecharitomene, splendor of heaven, having the one uncontained by the heavens in herself,
God confined and unconfined.
Hail, Kecharitomene, pillar of cloud containing God, and guiding Israel in the wilderness.”
—St. John Chrysostom
For when you see the Lord sacrificed, and laid upon the altar, and the priest standing and praying over the victim, and all the worshippers empurpled with that precious blood, can you then think that you are still among men, and standing upon the earth? Are you not, on the contrary, straightway translated to Heaven, and casting out every carnal thought from the soul, do you not with disembodied spirit and pure reason contemplate the things which are in Heaven? Oh! What a marvel! What love of God to man! He who sits on high with the Father is at that hour held in the hands of all, and gives Himself to those who are willing to embrace and grasp Him. And this all do through the eyes of faith! (On the Priesthood, Book III.4)
I am more confident of my salvation knowing that it’s all by God’s grace than if I had to add something to it.
Because if I had to add something to it, I would either screw it up royally, or I wouldn’t do enough.
This way I know my salvation is in good hands. Far better than when I get mine on it.
Well, Rome is wrong again>
Jesus told us we needed a new birth.
Paul tells us that in Christ we are new creations, the old has gone and the new has come.
There's no talk about renovating or rehabilitating the old nature.
It was not even close to damaged. It DIED. Beyond damage.
Bringing someone back from death to life is not fixing damage. It's creating new life.
Jesus was NO victim.
He laid down His life of His own accord. Nobody took it from Him.
More evidence that Rome does not believe in the Jesus of Scripture.
So which is true? The above quotes or the one you posted? See that is the problem with relying on the “church fathers”. They contradicted each other and often themselves ..one needs to ‘cheery pick” to find agreement
So your opinion is much closer to the Roman one than to the Lutheran one.
Take it up with E-S, who thinks Chrysostom is a “man of God” set against evil Rome.
“I am more confident of my salvation knowing that it’s all by God’s grace than if I had to add something to it.”
I don’t know how an Arminian can have assurance. How would you ever know you’ve done enough? How do you know if you are truly sincere? What if you on down the road you change your mind?
Buy a dictionary.
I kinda like these:
Mary was made Mother of God to obtain salvation for many who, on account of their wicked lives, could not be saved according to the rigor of Divine justice, but might be saved with the help of her sweet mercy and powerful intercession.
-St. John Chrysostom
It is impossible to be saved without the help of the Most Blessed Virgin, because those who are not saved by the justice of God are saved by the intercession of Mary.
-St. John Chrysostom
Ave Maria Virgo Fidelis
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