Posted on 01/06/2015 2:57:33 AM PST by Faith Presses On
Or, when the Holy Spirit guided mankind through a minefield of errors.
**Always sad to watch someone sauntering to Hell.**
‘sauntering’?
I can really sense your sadness (or is it pride?).
Thou that judgest, answered this if thou canst tell:
Why do you and others (for centuries) redefine the Christ as ‘God the Son’, when he and his apostles NEVER used that phrase?
Jesus Christ defined himself as the ‘Son of God’, and his apostles were taught that fact, and continued that doctrine. The Son makes it plain throughout the book of John that:
God the Father is a Spirit. 4:23,24
The Father gave him EVERYTHING starting at the BEGINNING. (God has no beginning)
The Son made it clear that the Father is IN him, and he IN the Father, futher proving that God is a Spirit.
Jesus Christ is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God.
Jesus told his disciples that when the look at him they are seeing the Father, that he says dwells in him. Hebrews 1:1-3 points out this phenomenom, saying that “God hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he (God) hath appointed HEIR of ALL things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who (the Son) being the brightness of his (God the Father’s) glory, and the express IMAGE of his (God the Father’s) person, and upholding all things by the word of his (God the Father’s) power...”
Remember Jesus Christ saying several times that the words that he spoke were not his own? It is the Spirit that quickeneth.
Remember the Son saying in Matt. 28:18, “All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth.”? Now you can continue reading the rest of Heb. 1:3, and on through the rest of chapter 1.
The problem with you trinitarians is that you insist on the flesh and soul of Jesus Christ being a separate God.
By reading John 1:1-14 along side Heb. chapter 1, the understanding is clearer.
John 1:4 says “IN him was life..”
verse 14 says the Word was made ‘flesh’. That means that the Word of God was made visible, “the image of the INVISIBLE God, the firstborn of every creature”. Col. 1:15
If you prods believe that the flesh itself is God, separate from God the Father, then you need to go join the RCC, and call Mary the ‘Mother of God’. (which of course leads to all the other vain imaginations of Mary adoration)
“To wit, that God” (the Father, source of all things divine, Father of the Son, and source of the Holy Ghost which proceeds from the Father) “was IN Christ reconciling the world unto himself..” 2Cor. 5:19
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest IN the flesh..” 1Tim 3:16
How was God IN Christ?.....the Son tells you many times: the Father in him, and he in the Father. God is a Spirit.
I believe I’ve asked you this before, and still am waiting for your answer:
Are you ‘South Carolina the Gamecock’, or ‘Gamecock of South Carolina’?
(clue: the Son is of the Father, but the Father is NOT of the Son)
Isaiah 9:6.
Except when Scripture teaches otherwise.
**I always wondered which of the trinity Ezekial saw in Chapter 1. It seemed so unlike all the other visions mentioned in the Bible.**
If you are talking about a three separate and distinct persons of God trinity, then you just are not going to find Ezekiel seeing any such thing. The Son is of the Father, the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father. The Father is NOT of the Son, or of the Holy Ghost.
God the Father is a Spirit. Jn 4:23,24
That’s why the Son could explain that when his disciples were looking at him they were seeing the Father, and that the Father dwells in him, and he in the Father.
**Christianity was faced with a major predicament. The very essence of Judaism is monotheism: one God, and only one God. God had no image, no idol, and was a ‘singularity’, that is, comparable to nothing: no form, size, shape, color, odor, weight, etc. Thus if you even *tried* to assign God with any characteristic, you were committing a profane act. This is a concept way beyond most people.**
The snag is the carnal mind. Man thinks of a son being a ‘chip off the old block’. So the trinitarian concept has to imagine God the Father as an image, and his Son as another image, and the Spirit of God as another separate and distinct person of God.
Neither Jesus Christ nor his apostles EVER used the phrase ‘God the Son’. That alone you tell you something.
For more just read post #42.
maybe.....Dunno....I wasn’t there....I would like to have....been there that is....get the facts directly.... too many men had their fingers in the pie.....In God I trust....I do not trust most men.
**Except when Scripture teaches otherwise.**
So, the Son was lacking in his ability to define the Father? And John also? They taught that no man has seen God. Why?...because God is a Spirit.
Christ and the apostles taught followers to just shake the dust off their feet, as a testamony to the unbelievers that reject the gospel.
No beheadings, no burnings, no tar and feathers.
Because man is so sinful he would crumble upon seeing God.
Exodus 33:20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.” 21 And the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock, 22 and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen.”
And yet all three were in the same scene multiple times in the NT, including 1 Peter:
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
It does tell me something ... it tells me they never used the term 'God the Son.'
Aside from that your implications amount to nothing.
**And yet all three were in the same scene multiple times in the NT, including 1 Peter:**
God the Father, the Son of God (Jesus Christ), and Holy Ghost (Spirit) are indeed quite scriptural. All three are mentioned at the beginning of many of the epistles. All things divine originate from the Father. That’s why the definitions are these:
God the Father. The Son of God. The Spirit of God.
These phrases are not found in scripture:
God the Son. God the Holy Ghost (Spirit).
But, the understanding is this:
God the Father (He is a Spirit; invisible).
The Son of God (the Son is OF the Father, the firstborn of creation. You find a beginning for the Son (there was an eternity before the beginning mentioned in John 1:1. You do not find a beginning of the Father).
The Holy Ghost (is of God the Father, for it proceedeth from the Father and is sent by him).
God the Father is IN the Son, and doing the works, giving the knowledge, and giving of his own Spirit (but, only to the Son without measure).
Nice torturing of the plain sense of the text.
Sadly for you it falls flat.
You might as well just quit regarding John, especially chapter 14, as part of your sola scriptura foundation, because you simply don’t seem believe the Christ’s testamony about the Father literally IN him doing the works. That’s chapter 14 in a nutshell, yet you portray the Son as God, apart from the Father, when the Son does no such thing.
Not at all. But keep digging. You are helping my point.
**Aside from that your implications amount to nothing.**
That would appear to be a dodge, rather than addressing the issue.
Here, dodge this riddle (personalized for you),.....everybody else likes to:
Are you ‘Maryland the dartuser’, or ‘dartuser of Maryland’?
The Son is of the Father, and testified of that many times. The Father is NOT of the Son.
Is it sinful to worship Jesus Christ or is that idolatry?
**Not at all. But keep digging. You are helping my point.**
I suppose one non-answer is as good as another.
Jesus Christ taught, over and over, that the Father was the source of EVERYTHING divine (words, works, wisdom, etc.) that were visually and audibly expressed through the Son, BECAUSE the Father was LITERALLY in him. After all, the Son gives all credit for those divine things to the Father dwelling IN him. To make the Son God, separate and distinct from the Father, you have to kick the Father to the curb.
“I and my Father are one.” Not two.
“I and my Father are one.”
Exactly. Along with the Holy Spirit.
Did Jesus ever claim to be deity?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.