Prosperity Preaching Is Not Christian (Osteen)

DFW Catholic ^ | 11.5.2014 | Vincent Ryan Ruggiero

[jimmyray]

QUOTE: "It always amazes me how willing some are to sow discontent..."

It always amazes me how willing people are to accept blatant error in order to avoid conflict.

Were are to use scripture to guide our doctrine when it is plain, and not dispute and fall out of fellowship where it is not plain. For "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 2 Tim 3:16

And as far as going along to get along is concerned, that's fine and dandy until they start burning believers at the stake because of non-conformance to their non-biblical traditions.

[jimmyray]

QUOTE: "...you can skip over 1500 years of Catholicism with its teachings and traditions...claim sola scriptura after copping off with another religion’s (Catholic) bible..."

Even if I conceded these points, the separatists and protestants came about because the RC refused to be reformed from it's many errors. Both the 12 conclusions of the Lollards and Luther's 95 theses attempted to do so. However, the RC was dogmatic in it's errors, racking and burning dissenters by the thousands.

See Matthew 15:6 "...Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition."

If it were not for the separatists and protestants, you'd still be hearing mass in Latin and looking at Latin bibles, and having no idea whether what you heard was remotely Biblical! Ever been even a little curious why the RC fought so hard to keep the Bible out of the common tongue (especially English)?

[Mount Athos]

The only place in Scripture where Jesus and prosperity are mentioned together is when Satan offers it to Him—“The devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. ‘All this I will give you,’ he said, ‘if you will bow down and worship me.’” (Matthew 4: 8-9)

I wish I could remember to mention this whenever the prosperity gospel comes up

[Salvation]

**The prosperity gospel is understandably appealing in this self-absorbed age, but because it replaces the cross with a dollar sign, it bears no resemblance to the Gospel of Jesus.**

BTTT!

[LearsFool]

Kind of a sweeping generalization for the vast majority of Christians over the past 2,000 years, isn't it?

Should we follow the crowd? Or take comfort in knowing that many others have gone and are going the same way we are?

"Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it."

[BykrBayb]

The religion I follow isn’t a clone of Catholicism. It’s based on the Bible (with a capital B).

[daniel1212]

It’s only false “teachings” if you are a Protestant and think you can skip over 1500 years of Catholicism with its teachings and traditions, and then pick up on Christianity at the point of the Reformation and then claim it, and the Catholic bible as your own.

The Reformation did not skip over all that Catholicism held, and but in accordance with "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good, (1 Thessalonians 5:21) it rejected many, if not all, false teachings, while historically they and its descendants likewise hold Scripture to be the supreme authority as literally being the assured wholly inspired and accurate word of God have been ardent defenders of Truth we both concur with. And even today evangelicals are overall much more unified in the most basic beliefs than the fruit of Rome.

Meanwhile, there was no 1500 years of Catholicism by the time of the Reformation, but there was about 1400 years of progressive deformation of the prima NT church, which yet needs full recovery .

But with the recalcitrant church of Rome it reached a point where the imperfect Reformation became a necessity as Rome has become and is as the gates of Hell for multitudes (i was one), which church as the body of Christ overcomes and continues, by God's grace and to His glory. Amen.

and then pick up on Christianity at the point of the Reformation and then claim it, and the Catholic bible as your own.

It was not Catholics that penned Scripture, nor is a perpetual infallible magisterium promised or necessary for its discernment and transmission.

But is your argument that if one affirms some of what the (claimed) stewards of Scripture hold then it means such should concur with all that the latter holds?

Then you cherry pick the parts of the bible you like, write a new version minus certain chapters, and claim sola scriptura after copping off with another religion’s (Catholic) bible and claiming you have the one true way. What conceit.

So your argument is that the Protestant OT was a new version, that had no antiquity, but that Reformers dissented from an infallible canon, and made that binding?

Or that Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares? And which is not conceit?

Then the new Protestant religions break up into hundreds of other Protestant religions until most are so watered down as to become mere shadows of the one true Christian religion (Catholicism) that they all cloned off of.

So those watered down Protestants religions are those who do not hold to the primary distinctive of the Reformation, that of Scripture literally being the assured wholly inspired and accurate word of God and thus the supreme authority, or that those who hold to the latter are watered down, while those Prot churches which typically are closer to Rome are the best?

And that Catholicism itself does not exist in schism and sects, with only a limited paper unity, while in reality her actions much teach otherwise, and is reflected in what her multitudes manifestly believe. And that what RCs can and do disagree on is extensive? How much of RC teaching is even infallibly defined?

And of course one man’s sola scriptura (interpretation of God’s word in the bible) is different from the next sect’s interpretation of the bible, until you have thousands of interpretations of a bible that wasn’t even initially (for 1500 years) yours.

You mean that those who hold most strongly to that primary distinctive of the Reformation are less unified in basic Truths than the fruit of Rome, and water them down? And again, that we are to always follow the historical stewards of Scripture?

And that under the alternative, that of sola ecclesia (the church being supreme), Rome's teachings are so clear, sure and extensive that it precludes variant interpretations?

And that she has authoritatively defined Scripture (where?) to such a great extent that RCs do not have a great deal of liberty to adopt varied interpretations to defend Rome?

And that we should look to Catholic scholarship for Bible commentary, such as in the official RC NAB Bible on the Vatican web site?

And most important, that unity under the premise of the instruments and stewards of Scripture being the infallible interpreters of it is what is Biblical, versus even common people discerning both men and writings are of God, sometimes in conflict with the magisterium?

Your assertions are based upon presuppositions, for which you have much to answer for. Waiting.

[Elsie]

YACVPT???

[Elsie]

Words of the wise to a CATHOLIC church...

To hear some of our FR Catholics tell it...

[daniel1212]

I was referring to the author of the article, Vincent Ryan Ruggiero, who I concluded was RC

Go it. See above post if interested.

[Elsie]

Hateful BIGOT!

WHY did you leave out the ONLY true church today??

The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latterday Saints

—Mormon_Dude(When would be a good time for...)

[Shimmer1]

I’ll take Jesus’ saving grace over worldly riches, thank you very much.

[Elsie]

It’s only false “teachings” if you are a Protestant and think you can skip over 1500 years of Catholicism with its teachings and traditions,

Which must be SO lame they cannot keep EVIL men from leading it!!

---

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.^[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.^[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.^[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony^[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

[Elsie]

We like your NEW pope...

[Elsie]

The bible doesn't mention biblical inerrancy either.

It does, however, mention...

 

 

 

 

---

 

Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

---

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

---

1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

---

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

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[Elsie]

Can scripture be God-breathed and errant?

Well; according to Mormonism...

Here is MORMONism's own creed:

---

 

 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

[Elsie]

Get over the divisions people. It is not what Christ wanted for us.

O...
K...

 

Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

 

Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

 

 

 

 

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

[Elsie]

It always amazes me how willing people are to accept blatant error in order to avoid conflict.

[BykrBayb]

Goodness gracious! How many wpm do you type?!!!

[mdmathis6]

“you have power in you greater than any power that can come against you”

1 John4:1-3 came to mind when I read that statement and it chills me. You quoted verse 4 but compare his statements against verses 1-3.

I hear very little Christ Jesus in Osteen’s preachings. He doesn’t acknowledge “Christ in us”, instead he refers to Him as “a power in us” that unlocks access to material things. It pings the spiritual ‘antichrist’ ping o meter far off the scale. Daniel comes to mind...the depiction of the one who “worships the god of ‘forces’”.

I’d urge all to stay away from Osteen like a road kill skunk!