Posted on 06/04/2014 6:52:46 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
I think you’re right about the ultimate moral lesson concerning riches, but the details of this parable (yes, parable) are anything but realistic. Will all of the redeemed be placed by angels in Abraham’s capacious bosom? Are heaven and hell in immediate proximity to each other? Is heaven below the earth, or is hell in the sky? Do we have to get carried past hell to heaven, or is hell above heaven? Are are they next to each other? Will we be having conversations between heaven and hell? Really now, what could be more of a story than this? :-)
I’ve gone as far as to say, (and to quote Paul, I speak as a mad man) if I were a betting man, I would bet that it is exactly like the anesthestetic state. That is, at the moment you die, you are awakened in resurrection, even if you died millennia ago.
And to take it a step further, because out body died, and out body includes our brain, all memories of loved ones are erased as well - and are really no longer relevant.
Beyond that, I’m a blind man talking to a blind man about the color “blue”. ;-)
Judas and Hitler are going to the lake of fire. They never accepted Jesus Christ as Savior. My Bible makes that clear. There is NO other way to the Father. None. There is no purgatory where they can EARN their salvation. NO where in Scripture is there any mention of any such thing. This is all man made up. It is Jesus Christ, WHILE you are alive on this earth, that you must accept. You must do it while you are alive. No one can later on pray you in.
It’s a parable.
Just my opinion, of course. But I feel that those that say it is not a parable say so because they have a vested interest in it NOT being a parable. I figured out it was a parable before I even got into this “what is hell?” discussion.
BTW, what is the rich man’s name? Why is he where he is? Why is Lazarus where he is?
Third, this particular story does not seem to fit the definition of a parable, which is a presentation of a spiritual truth using an earthly illustration.
Today he may use a scene from Iron Man.
And even, for arguments sake, if it is a parable, surely it is a picture of what happens to people who are like the rich man...
RE: It’s a parable.
Where in Luke 16 does it say that?
And even if it were a parable ( for the sake of argument ), why is it not something that does not express a truth about the afterlife and the fate of people with the same attitude as the rich man?
The important thing is that whether the story is a true incident or a parable, the teaching behind it remains the same. Even if it is not a “real” story, it is realistic. Parable or not, Jesus plainly used this story to teach that after death the unrighteous are eternally separated from God, that they remember their rejection of the Gospel, that they are in torment, and that their condition cannot be remedied. In Luke 16:19-31, whether parable or literal account, Jesus clearly taught the existence of heaven and hell as well as the deceitfulness of riches to those who trust in material wealth.
RE: All we know about the rich man is that he is rich and has brothers.
Yes, and we also know that he was in torment, wanting water to dip is parched tongue (Luke 16:24).
RE: I supplied a link to a discussion that gets completely different messages out of it than you do. And to say that Jesus taught of the existence of heaven and hell is not being argued here. The question is, what is actually meant by heaven and hell.
Well, he is showing us in what he taught in Luke 16, A PICTURE OF THE AFTERLIFE AND THE FATE THAT AWAITS PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE THE RICH MAN.
Oh, brother. The two valid reasons for divorce are adultery and abandonment !
Not really.
Jesus said that if you leave her for reasons other than adultery, you make an adulterer of her. He’s not saying it’s ok because of adultery. Rather, he’s saying you can’t make her an adulterer because she already made herself one.
I don’t know what you mean by tolerating adultery. Do you mean not judging others? Well, I take the Jesus perspective regarding the woman at the well. And he ended it with “Go and sin no more”. But I now go to a Baptist church in rural KY. I’m really having a hard time with the judgementalism there. Regarding alcohol, you’d think they were Muslims. But I’m being judgemental even bringing it up.
OFF TOPIC!!
Where in Luke 16 does it say that?
RE: How was Lazarus supposed to get there to drop a little water into his mouth, and what good was that supposed to do him? Wouldn’t the fires have burned Lazarus?
I don’t know how that question invalidates the reality that the rich man was in CONSCIOUS torment.
The place he was in was also mentioned — HADES.
If you want to argue that his torment is TIME LIMITED, maybe you might have a point, but the reality of the torment cannot be ignored.
And even if it were a parable ( for the sake of argument ), why is it not something that does not express a truth about the afterlife and the fate of people with the same attitude as the rich man?
I mean before he was in torment.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.