JESUIT CREATIVITY IN THE VATICAN: Is Francis sending mixed messages about marriage?

Renew America ^ | April 12, 2014 | Marielena Montesino de Stuart

[jjotto]

He was a) misunderstood, b) misrepresented, or c), poorly catechized...

[ebb tide]

I pick:

c)

[ebb tide]

http://www.gruppoemmanuele.it/on-gay-unions-a-pragmatist-before-he-was-a-pope/

“Bergoglio’s thinking was very clearly demonstrated both with what he said and in the message of his pastoral work,” said Roxana Alfieri, a social worker in the communications department of the bishops’ central office here.

“He didn’t want the church to take a position of condemning people but rather of respect for their rights like any vulnerable person,” said Ms. Alfieri, who sat in on the bishops’ 2010 meeting.

Cardinal Bergoglio was operating in one of Latin America’s most socially liberal countries. Though Roman Catholicism remains the official religion of the state and 76.8 percent of Argentina’s population is Catholic, only 33 percent cited religion as very important in their lives, according to a 2010 Pew study, and just 19 percent said they regularly attended mass.

While the archbishop’s support for civil unions was shared by some of the more liberal bishops in attendance, it was defeated by the majority, reflecting the broad resistance of conservative bishops.

[NKP_Vet]

It’s not the protestants on the site that criticize him. It’s the sedevacantist Catholics.

There are also evangelicals that contribute to the site that are not allowed on the FR forums. Most also post on Newwithviews, which is blacklisted on FR.

[NKP_Vet]

“The claim has been seconded by homosexual activist Marcelo Marquez”

Well hell I guess if a homosexual activist says its true it must be true. Now that carries a lot of weight.

No written transcript exists of Bergoglio telling someone that he agreed with homosexual unions. It is a heresay that has been debunked time and again.

[Mad Dawg]

You know, it is said -- and I've heard it often enough that it might even be true -- that Aquinas thought that cities ought to have what amounted to red light districts. Obviously he didn't approve of fornication, much less prostitution. But he knew it was going to happen, and there were prudential reasons to confine it to known neighborhoods.

I mention this because I see no contradiction between the clearly stated teaching of the Church on SSA (disorder) and homosexual acts (grave sin) and support for civil unions. For one thing, it is plain that not even Satan is purely evil -- because "purely evil" is a contradiction in terms, from a philosophical point of view.

Even in relationships seriously tainted with a disordered attraction and sinful acts, there still may be SOME social good. For example, it really doesn't matter whose fault HIV-AIDS is, when someone is dying from it, it is good that a friend will take care of him and stick with him until he dies.

And when political and social institutions needlessly prevent a sick SSA guy form being visited by someone who cares --- or when certain decisions must be made and the patient has no advocate, despite the unchangeable fact of the disorder and sin in some (possibly even a major) aspect of the relationship, it is better for someone who knows and cares about the patient to be there.

I am by no means certain, and what the Pope says on this is by no means dogma. But it is not the symbol of outrage that sedevacantists and anti-Catholics make it out to be. It is a comparatively unremarkable and prudential determination about a situation which is not improved by strident condemnation.

ON these matters, Catholics may certainly disagree with the Pope. But for reasons of filial duty, of for no others, I think the thoughtful and pious Catholic ought to consider the question carefully and reflectively and in the light of the historical sweep of Catholic teaching and opinion.

But the impression I sometimes get is that, a Catholic priest who welcomed and counseled a grieving SSA person over the loss of his or her lover would be condemned. But again, I say, FIRST we tell them, tell any sinner, persuasively that God is Love and that he desires the salvation of all. Then in the strength derived from accepting that truth they may find the strength and grace to look at the contradiction between what they are thinking and doing and what God wants for them.

[ebb tide]

It has never been debunked. It has been reported by Archbishop Bergolio’s official biographer. Just because there is no transcript ( “written transcript” is redundant by the way) doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Heck, we can’t even get full transcripts of the Pope’s daily homilies without editing by the Vatican.