'Culture of Encounter': An Opportunity to Deny Christ?

That the Bones You Have Crushed May Thrill ^ | 1-23-2014 | englandsgardens

[Alex Murphy]

AFAIK, he was speaking ‘ex cathedra’

Well, that more or less gets to the crux of the problem (no pun intended). Those that find his statements challenging are IMO assuming that any time a Pope speaks on the topics of faith and morals, he is always incapable of error. Continuing with the assumption leads the listener to conclude only one of two things:

• The doctrine is true, but the listener is in error: the Pope's statements are orthodox but misunderstood / misinterpreted. Francis remains in the chair of Peter.
• The dogma is true, but the Pope is in error: the Pope's statements are heterodox and understood correctly, therefore he is an anti-Pope. The chair of Peter is considered vacated

I'm suggesting that there is a third option that Catholics are loathe to consider:

• The doctrine is false, the listener is in error: the Pope *can* make statements that are heterodox. There is no chair of Peter, and no Spirit-protected "papal infallibility" for the bishop of Rome. Francis can speak "out of the abundance of his heart" (Matthew 12:34) even on the topics of faith and morals. His statements reveal "the abundance of his heart", his will is free to disagree (if he chooses) with prior bishops of Rome.

...but I could see what you are saying where he obviously goes against what another Pope has said ‘ex cathedra’.

I think the best way to understand the Pope is to allow him to interpret himself. Let him mean what he says, and respond accordingly.

[knarf]

Whew ... that's quite a link !

I'm SO glad Jesus loves me and accepted my plea for His salvation (psalm 51)

[Jeff Chandler]

Honey Badger is sweet and de-licious. But doesn’t care.

[Jeff Chandler]

Nearly every couple I know who went to a “Marriage Encounter” is either divorced or has left the Church!

We worked for decades with the youth in our parishes, and the folks we worked with were always singing the praises of Marriage Encounter. Whenever they suggested we go on one, my reply was okay, as long as it was held in a four star hotel, the room had a hot tub, and Mrs. Chandler and I were the only ones on the encounter, I would go.

[piusv]

I’m disappointed: where are the usual “I will defend the pope at all costs” posters?

[Oratam]

'Engaging in dialogue does not mean renouncing our own ideas and traditions, but the claim that they alone are valid or absolute.

I may be grasping here but I take some comfort in the pope's choice of words. He said "ideas and traditions" and not "beliefs and doctrines."

If I'm correct, who is he addressing? The traditionalists with their ad orientem and chant and the '70s legacy crowd with their guitars and felt banners?

What was the setting for his comment?

[piusv]

If that is true, then aren’t you saying that ecumenical dialogue only deals with ideas and traditions and not doctrine and beliefs. And if that’s the case, where is the goal of conversion fit in?

[xone]

I think the best way to understand the Pope is to allow him to interpret himself. Let him mean what he says, and respond accordingly.

Not a great position for Catholics.

[Faith Presses On]

If it had been up to the clique of unmarried priests who became the leadership of the Catholic no ordinary Christian would be able to read God’s Word themselves, under penalty of death. And Francis is only saying what most Western Catholics, who weren’t taught the Bible but a religion of rituals and works, and who have been taught to embrace the world, already have believed a long time.

[ebb tide]

Below is another statement by Pope Francis in the same speech:

What does it mean for us, as disciples of the Lord, to encounter others in the light of the Gospel?

In light of the above, I think he is talking about "beliefs". Now even if he just talking about "ideas", that could be ideas like abortion is murder or homo-marriage is a perversion.

[ebb tide]

Nothing but crickets.

[Faith Presses On]

One other thing about the Catholic Church and Francis is that you can see how far away from Christ and how deceived the Catholic Church is when a pope that seems more interested in the poor and less in his custom ring, Italian shoes and the uniforms of the Swiss guard appears to be onto something new. Ever since the priesthood was required to be celibate the Church has been laying up for itself treasures on earth.

[Faith Presses On]

We owe the Lord all and human beings nothing. We should commit to follow Him first and then walk and fellowship with others who are doing the same. This is the abundant life the Lord offers us.

[Oratam]

Love.

[ebb tide]

Is that in reference to homo-marriage?

[Oratam]

No. It's in reference to the other quote from Francis you provided:

"What does it mean for us, as disciples of the Lord, to encounter others in the light of the Gospel?"

[trebb]

How is it apostasy? If you never question something, then you are an uninformed zealot - may make you think your belief/wisdom is pure, but it makes you a programmed robot.

All things about God can withstand the most severe challenge - many an atheist came to change his mind by trying to disprove God. If your religion tells you not to dare question anything about it, you have the wrong religion and the foundational beliefs are likely wrong.

[ebb tide]

But the pope is saying his own faith, the Catholic faith, is not “absolute”. That’s apostasy.

[trebb]

But the pope is saying his own faith, the Catholic faith, is not “absolute”. That’s apostasy.

I call it common sense - religion was invented by mortal men; all religions have areas that seem to conflict with the Bible. The Bible was divinely inspired - religions were inspired by men (similar to the Pharisees). No religion is 100% correct in all it's tenets/canons/rites/provisions.

[piusv]

*Is* his faith the Catholic Faith? Certainly not the Traditional Catholic Faith.