'Culture of Encounter': An Opportunity to Deny Christ?

That the Bones You Have Crushed May Thrill ^ | 1-23-2014 | englandsgardens

[ebb tide]

'Engaging in dialogue does not mean renouncing our own ideas and traditions, but the claim that they alone are valid or absolute.' ~ His Holiness Pope Francis, on the Feast of St Francis de Sales

Pure apostasy.

[Alex Murphy]

If I, as a Catholic, maintain that my own opinion holds that badgers are the sweetest of all the animals, then my opinion hold no weight. Yet, if I appeal to the Authority of the Catholic Church in recognising that a particular moral action or doctrine is right or wrong, then I am appealing to the Authority of Christ Who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. A 'Culture of Encounter' would appear to involve a measure of denial, obfuscation or apostasy in the public proclamation of Catholic doctrine in the public arena or in private discussions.

So what is the Authoritative Catholic Position on Badger Flavor?

[knarf]

My experience here is ... There is no room for discussion, especially if the discussion includes a question or position statement that goes against Catholic dogma.

[xone]

Pure apostasy.

If true, how do Catholics remove the Pope? This is a direct contradiction of Catholic dogma.

[xone]

My experience here is ... There is no room for discussion, especially if the discussion includes a question or position statement that goes against Catholic dogma.

The Pope obviously disagrees with you.

[MDLION]

I hope this quote of the Holy Father is referring to areas where there can be a legitimate disagreement. We certainly can’t dialogue on things that have been defined. By the first sentence I mean the following: Maybe John Paul thought that the Church needed him to travel and evangelize as first priority. Maybe Benedict thought that the reform of the Mass was more important than traveling. Maybe Francis thinks that getting the Church more in touch with the poor is more important than travel or liturgical reform. We can dialogue on some things like this. But there are certainly things we can’t dialogue on and must declare as absolute. I would say John Paul’s statements in The Gospel Of Life on abortion and euthanasia, and the statement in the document closing the priesthood to women are close to if not infallible. Francis has said that John Paul has closed for discussion the ordination of women. So he can’t mean everything is up for grabs and subject to dialogue and change. A number of Francis’ statements have been translated incorrectly. Keep this in mind. And if he does say something that could use more precision, the Congragation For The Doctrine Of The Faith will step in and issue a statement. Francis could probably use some of Benedict’s exacting precision with words.

[knarf]

Yes, that's what this article appears to support.

curious

MY comment was in regards to FR discussions

[BlatherNaut]

"Archbishop Claudio Mario Celli, the head of the Vatican's social communications office, said he didn't think Francis was making an official policy statement on interreligious dialogue, noting that the message was merely a reflection, "not a conciliar or dogmatic text."

But he acknowledged that Francis is shaking things up in much the same "providential" way Pope John XXIII shook up the church in launching the Second Vatican Council.

"We are realizing that there are sensations of, I wouldn't say difficulty, but of discomfort sometimes in certain circles," he said. "I think step by step we must rediscover a sense of the path, of what the pope wants to tell us."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/23/pope-internet-dialogue-god/4792771/

[armydoc]

Cue the “not an infallible statement......misinterpreted.....misunderstood......out of context..........”

[xone]

After review, I think this makes the Pope a heretic:

Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same

Or. in a way a schismatic:

schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him" (CCC 2089).

since the 'sin' appears to be against a creed promulgated by a previous Pope.

Or, he could have been mis-translated which seems to be the fall back position around here. Just as I mis-interpreted your comment. Maybe it is a mis-interpretation? There seems to be a lack of unity on this around here.

[circlecity]

This is why I don’t trust this Pope. He makes vague, open ended statements which appear to tell those outside the Christian church the worldly things they want to hear and when called on it he claims he didn’t mean what the words appear to say. It is very disingenuous.

[xone]

Definitions from

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-great-heresies

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01624b.htm

[Alex Murphy]

After review, I think this makes the Pope a heretic...Or in a way a schismatic...since the 'sin' appears to be against a creed promulgated by a previous Pope.

I think there's another option: the dogma of "papal infallibility" itself is being called into question.

[knarf]

If true ... THAT will call out the Crusaders.

[xone]

AFAIK, he was speaking ‘ex cathedra’, but I could see what you are saying where he obviously goes against what another Pope has said ‘ex cathedra’. Pretty confusing from Unity Central.org, has to be a ‘mis-’: translation or interpretation, your choice.

[xone]

Correction:

was speaking= wasN'T speaking

[knarf]

ex-cathedra is, by definition ... infallable.

[knarf]

OK .. I responded before your correction

understood

[xone]

If true ... THAT will call out the Crusaders.

I'd guess that the FR Crusaders will sit this one out, not much wiggle room.

Inasmuch as this dogmatic intolerance is a prominent characteristic of the Catholic Church, and is stigmatized by the modern spirit as obstinacy and even as intolerable arrogance, its objective justification must now be established

Religious Toleration

[miserare]

If “Culture of Encounter” means what it did in the 60’s and 70’s, I say FORGET IT!

The various “Encounter” movements led to confusion, apostasy, and despair.

Nearly every couple I know who went to a “Marriage Encounter” is either divorced or has left the Church!