You're Probably Not Saved, Yet.

Beyond Today ^ | 2013 | Various

[ShadowAce]

No

[Mrs. Don-o]

Tagline

[ravenwolf]

Luke 18
10
Two men went up into the temple to pray ; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess .

13
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying , God be merciful to me a sinner.

14
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased ; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted .

[cuban leaf]

There are some actions we must perform in order to partake.
Acceptance of the gift is the only action necessary. After that, looking at whether or not your works are “enough” is like walking a high wire and “looking down”. It’s no longer the point. You just learn about your savior, attempt to apply His love on a daily basis, and thank Him every day that in spite of the wretch that you prove you are on a daily basis, you are still His.

[cuban leaf]

All mankind has salvation...by grace, through Faith.

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Well, all mankind that actually accepts the free gift. I’ve talked to plenty that actively refuse. According to scripture, they are, in fact, not saved.

[ShasheMac]

Keep in mind, as Jesus hung on the cross, the moment one of the thieves asked Jesus to remember him, Jesus turned to the man and gave him assurance of salvation. The man had no time to do good works, but was saved.

[DouglasKC]

Well I guess you can take the word of "Matt Slick" the guy who runs that CARM website and a self appointed expert. At least he sounds like an expert.

Or you can go right to the horse's mouth:

United Church of God

I don't really care one way or the other. All I care about is truth.

[ShadowAce]

Mostly agree.

Our works show our faith. There is no quota for them, however.

Our faith indicates that we want to be like Jesus. The best way to be like Jesus is to believe and act as he did--and with the same motives. Acting because of some reward is the wrong motivation. Acting through love is what is required.

Our actions show our faith. We do not earn our way into Heaven.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

You seem to care, since you responded. But, your church does indeed hold to those beliefs which CARM gladly exposes, whether you like it or not. Therefore, it is indeed a cult by Christian standards.

[American Constitutionalist]

You can puff your self up in your self righteousness all you want but no matter how many times I give this verse to the law teachers and preachers they strangely never respond back.
Before I place that scripture here when ever in the New Testament when it says Obey Christ is means to obey the Gospel, to believe on the Gospel... that is what is implied.
Ohh yeah ? I heard it all, some will say " but, but, the demons believe also " really ? yes they believe that Jesus is the Christ, but they will and can never believe on the Gospel because they were never " ORDAINED " unto eternal life.... opps, that's another Scripture the Arminians can't seem to explain, and yes I do believe in election.


Matthew 5:20 (Authorized (King James) Version)
20. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Try to get your brain and your self righteousness around this one.
Most of the time the law preachers, teachers and Arminians don't answer that one and are strangely quit.

Hey ? if Obeying God and keeping the law perfectly would get you in good stead with Christ ? then ? all the Pharisees and Scribes law preachers and all would be best of buddies with Christ right ?
Isn't that what your advocating here ?
Christ as the last day would say " ohh your scribes and Pharisees I know you the best out of all the people in the world because you kept the law the best now come into paradise " .

Jesus said clearly in that verse unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees and Scribes ( because after all ? they were the bestest law keepers eve'a ) then in no wise will you never ( ENTER ) the kingdom of heaven.
WOW !
What ? your excuse ? that it's not in the bible ?
It's right there plan as day.
Jesus made a impossible statement and impossible standard to keep.
Are you arrogant and proud to think ? that your own righteousness could exceed or does exceed that even of the Pharisees and Scribes of old Israel ?

[cuban leaf]

Zactly. One of my absolute favorite Christian songs, and one I performed in my prison ministry band, was Third Day’s “Thief”. Brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it.

Another new one is Three Wooden Crosses. The irony of that one is that the way I came across it was a couple months ago I got a suitcase at an estate sale in Seattle on a visit. I used it to ship my “prizes” back home. When we got home and unloaded the suitcase, in the liner was a CD with this as the title song.

When you listen to the theme of the song, you’ll understand why it also makes me tear up even more thant Theif.

Thief: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPqCPMyypI

Three Wooden Crosses (it’s not about what you think): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfdMU2TcxH8

[DouglasKC]

Well, yes - THROUGH FAITH. I continue to be perplexed why you leave out Faith (the work of the Holy Spirit). Isn’t that what God said? Faith in the works and death of Christ (...whoever believes in Him...) provides salvation, the propitiation of sin; “Behold, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world”. All mankind has salvation...by grace, through Faith.

Okay, so by faith you mean they have to know and believe in Christ. Do they need the indwelling of the holy spirit?

Again, why do you work so hard to achieve what Christ has already done for you?

Kind of a loaded question don't you think? :-)

Kind of like "Why are you still beating your wife?"

We don't work to "achieve" salvation at all. We respond to the spirit of God in love and obedience.

[DouglasKC]

vI think using tobacco is the only thing that will keep you from being saved.

Ha seems like it sometimes!

[ex-snook]

"The man had no time to do good works, but was saved."

True. He confessed his sins. You can't earn heaven with good works, however, unrepentant bad works will keep you out.

[DouglasKC]

You seem to care, since you responded. But, your church does indeed hold to those beliefs which CARM gladly exposes, whether you like it or not. Therefore, it is indeed a cult by Christian standards.

Yeah, blah blah blah. I'll take the teachings of UCG over "mainstream" denominations that espouse homosexual bishops and ministers any day of the week. They're much more of a cult then UCG if you want to use the term "Cult" as deviant from traditional Christianity... :-)

[cuban leaf]

Our actions show our faith. We do not earn our way into Heaven.

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And even then it’s dicey to judge others. After all, if a man was raised with no manners whatsoever, but as a Christian, ramps it up several notches, but is still far below a man who was treated to respect others and help, yet has dropped down a few notches, which is “showing his faith” the most in God’s eyes?

[ravenwolf]

I have smoked for over 60 years and i have never been over weight because i worked.

The reason i made that remark is that the preachers do not want to insinuate that some one is committing adultery so they will get onto people about smoking.

Which is not even mentioned in scripture.

[ravenwolf]

Ha seems like it sometimes!

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Thats for sure.

[ravenwolf]

I guess it is none of my business what you did to go to jail but how much time did you spend in there?

[cuban leaf]

smoked = been alive.

I don’t smoke. Sorry about that...