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Evangelical leader says commonality with Mormons deeper than differences
Deseret News ^ | Nov. 16 2013 | Joseph Walker

Posted on 11/16/2013 8:27:11 PM PST by Ripliancum

Borrowing an ancient Hebrew word from an Old Testament text, one of America’s leading evangelical Christian scholars told nearly 2,000 young Mormons at Utah Valley University Friday that his faith and their faith, often at odds with each other through the years over doctrinal disparities, “need to find ways we can work together” to find “shalom,” or peace.

“God has placed us in the world, in this nation, and calls us to seek the shalom together,” said Dr. Richard J. Mouw, president emeritus of the Fuller Theological Seminary and noted author of such books as “Uncommon Decency: Christian Civility in an Uncivil World.”

“Evangelicals and Mormons have a lot to talk about and a lot to share about the hope that lies within each of us,” Mouw told a capacity crowd at the LDS Institute of Religion on the UVU campus. “We need to work together, learning from each other and bearing witness to the hope that shines within us.”

That hope, he said, emanates from the beliefs that evangelical Christians have in common with members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — specifically their shared belief in “the redemptive power of Jesus Christ.”...

(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...


TOPICS: Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: christ; evangelical; lds; mormon
Mouw also referred to a sermon by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the LDS Church’s April 2009 general conference about the Atonement.

“I show that address to my students at Fuller,” Mouw said. ...

...“These are profound teachings that we both talk about,” Mouw said. “These are the things we need to be talking about rather than shouting at each other and demonizing each other.”

1 posted on 11/16/2013 8:27:11 PM PST by Ripliancum
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To: Ripliancum

Pardon, but this guy is an idiot: The Mormon “gospel” has nothing in common with the Biblical truth of Salvation.


2 posted on 11/16/2013 8:31:23 PM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: Ripliancum; Elsie
That hope, he said, emanates from the beliefs that evangelical Christians have in common with members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — specifically their shared belief in “the redemptive power of Jesus Christ.”...

Is that a "punch line"? The Mormons teach that we can gods, ourselves. "Jesus" is just a word and tool for their propaganda...

Heavenly Father called a Grand Council to present His plan for our progression. (See Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, 209, 511.) We learned that if we followed His plan, we would become like Him. We would gain a physical body, experience death and be resurrected; eventually we would have all power in heaven and earth; we would become heavenly parents and have spirit children just as He does (see Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-20.)

In this Grand Council, we learned as well that He would provide an earth for us where we would prove ourselves (Abraham 3:24-26). We would lose any remembrance of our heavenly home. This would be necessary so we could exercise our agency to choose righteousness over evil without the influence of the memory when we lived with Heavenly Father. We would be obedient in keeping God’s Commandments through a test of our faith in Him and not because of our knowledge or memory of Him. Our faith in the gift of a promised Savior would help us recognize the truth when we heard it again as well. (John 18:37). ...http://mormonsbelieve.org/tag/redemption

3 posted on 11/16/2013 8:36:55 PM PST by WVKayaker ("Because nothing says "rugged individualism" like heavy-handed big government.../sarc" -Sarah Palin)
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To: JSDude1

I have to agree with you on this one: most of the mormans I have known have been super nice guys who are great with their families, but their conception of our Savior is - shall we say - twisted beyond all recognition.


4 posted on 11/16/2013 8:38:10 PM PST by Psiman (PS I am not a crackpot)
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To: JSDude1
The Mormon “gospel” has nothing in common with the Biblical truth of Salvation.

amen...

5 posted on 11/16/2013 8:41:54 PM PST by latina4dubya (when i have money i buy books... if i have anything left, i buy 6-inch heels and a bottle of wine...)
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To: Ripliancum

re: “. . . specifically their shared belief in “the redemptive power of Jesus Christ.”

The “Jesus” of Joseph Smith is not the same as the Jesus of the New Testament. How can there be any “shared belief”?

It is a theological/doctrinal travesty for this professor to be teaching in a supposedly evangelical seminary.

Yes, Christians and Mormons can share in some ethical beliefs, but in theology? There is little to none.


6 posted on 11/16/2013 8:48:50 PM PST by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Ripliancum
Talk about going off the rails this guy must have had a warm feeling that fried his brain. A group that denies Christ is God from God, one with the Father and the Holy Spirit is not Christian in any way.
7 posted on 11/16/2013 8:56:09 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory)
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To: Ripliancum

Guy is a moron.

LDS does not consider itself a branch of Christianity and doctrinally there is no way they could be.

Doesn’t make them bad people or prove we are better people.

Just good people who’s faiths are incompatible.


8 posted on 11/16/2013 9:39:27 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: Ripliancum

[Three part round]
1 [1]Shalom, my friends, [2] shalom, my friends, [3] shalom, shalom.
Shalom, my friends, shalom, my friends, shalom, shalom.

2 [1] Share peace, dear friends, [2] share peace, dear friends,
[3] God’s peace, God’s peace.

Share peace, dear friends, share peace, dear friends,
God’s peace, God’s peace.


9 posted on 11/16/2013 10:02:01 PM PST by Dr. Sivana (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: Ripliancum

If this is where Fuller Theological Seminary is at, they have undoubtedly joined the ‘falling away’ group discussed in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.....”Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”


10 posted on 11/16/2013 10:45:53 PM PST by hecticskeptic
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To: Psiman
a religion to be considered "Christian" should be "Christ" centered....I don't think Mormons consider Christ anything more than just another prophet.....

its a chasm of different beliefs....

now morals, values, ethics...these are shared beliefs.

but traditional Jews and Buddists and Muslims also have family values, so there you go....

11 posted on 11/16/2013 11:12:24 PM PST by cherry (.in the time of universal deceit, telling the truth is revolutionary.....)
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To: Ripliancum
That hope, he said, emanates from the beliefs that evangelical Christians have in common with members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — specifically their shared belief in “the redemptive power of Jesus Christ.”...

How can two beliefs be "shared" when they are diametrically opposed to each other??? The Mormon Jesus is not the Jesus of Holy Scripture. The "redemptive power" of Jesus Christ in Mormonism is insufficient to fully save anyone and requires copious works and deeds to merit salvation while the Bible says that it is faith that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin and His death redeems us from hell by being a full and satisfactory payment for all our sins. Even the "heaven" of Mormonism is different than the Biblical one. The only agreement possible is to agree to disagree and maybe not be mean about it, but there is no way that we share in the same beliefs.

12 posted on 11/16/2013 11:36:24 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Rashputin

Exactly!


13 posted on 11/16/2013 11:39:06 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Ripliancum
This Mouw cannot be described as "Christian" nor as "scholar" in the sense of knowing, believing, interpreting, and applying Bible precepts. The scholar Paul says:

2Co 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus (of the same kind)*, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit (of a different kind)*, which ye have not received, or another gospel (of a different kind)*, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

* = parenthetical explanation of the Greek adjectives allon, heteron, heteron

That is, we may differ with the "gospel" of someone who preaches another Jesus of the same kind, a Jesus like He of the Bible, and put up with him for a while; but we ought not to endure someone who preaches another Christ of a different kind as do the Mormons. We ought to never establish any kind of tolerant association with him/them for any purpose, much less try to empower and participate in educational and evangelistic efforts with them, as Mouw seems to be attempting.

Furthermore, the theologian John says:

2Jn 1:6-11 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. (my bolding for emphasis)

Does not that say that a truly Christian scholar should never address or tolerantly debate one or more Mormons, but only plead with them to come to terms with the God of the Bible, and reject the doctrines of the Book of Mormon? Should he not at every opportunity ask them to immediately reject a false religion that leads one to Hell and the Lake of Fire?

John says not to invite them into your house, nor even wish them "have a nice day," for in doing so we would participate in their evil works. Is that not so? Is not Mouw doing exactly that, and bringing shame on Fuller Theological Seminary?

14 posted on 11/17/2013 2:35:06 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: Ripliancum

Do YOU disagree with ANYTHING your leaders said above??


15 posted on 11/17/2013 5:02:29 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums
How can two beliefs be "shared" when they are diametrically opposed to each other??? <>Rip is deceived; or else a DECEIVER himself.
16 posted on 11/17/2013 5:03:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: cherry

“.I don’t think Mormons consider Christ anything more than just another prophet....”

That’s certainly not the case. We hold Christ to be the Savior and Redeemer of all mankind. The only possible means of salvation.


17 posted on 11/17/2013 5:07:23 AM PST by Normandy
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To: hecticskeptic

Fuller once turned out men committed to the gospel, but that was long ago. The past 40 years they have mostly turned out lightweight apostates. The largest local circus church in my area is pastored by a Fuller man. Untold thousands flock to hear him say absolutely nothing each weekend. He never gets close to preaching the gospel. One of his good friends is his Fuller classmate, Rick Warren.


18 posted on 11/17/2013 5:10:48 AM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: JSDude1

60 years ago the missionary opening was “which is the true church?”. 40 years ago I had a conversation with a stake president in Denver where he said “we’re all Christians...”. The opening for mormons in the last 30 years has changed to that meme.

The follow up to the new opening is now “don’t you want to know the details of doing things the right (Mormon) way?”. If you want to become a pharisee with a very twisted view of God and His Son, you will keep listening to that garbage. It is a very graceless faith built on a hoax that used so called religious language masquerading as scripture.


19 posted on 11/17/2013 5:17:08 AM PST by Tom Bombadil
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To: Ripliancum

We need to carefully think about this.

Evangelical Christians and Mormons share a significant percentage of agendas. We also share these values with Muslims.

All three groups are pro-family, value faith, want to be able to practice their faith in public, oppose deviancy,etc. A coalition of these three groups may be able to slow our society’s slid into ruin. I am willing to work with both groups to make the world less bad.

However, while all three have Christ in their theology, we see Him very differently. I am not willing to accept that either the Mormon or Muslim view of Jesus is equal to mine.

Therefore, the question, and challenge, is to see if there is a way to accomplish good in the world without compromising Christ.

I think we can do it.


20 posted on 11/17/2013 5:34:09 AM PST by AlbertWang
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To: Ripliancum

The first Churches i ever attended were led by ordinary people who did not know much of anything apart from the Bible so when they preached or talked there was no place for them to go except the Bible.

But now we have all of the professors who were educated in religion and obviously ordained by God to write their own books or read books written by other professors.

It is such a shame that these people were not around when Jesus proclaimed his Gospel, i have a feeling the Scriptures would be a lot different.

Come to think of it i guess they were around, wonder why God did not use them?


21 posted on 11/17/2013 6:11:47 AM PST by ravenwolf
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To: Ripliancum

RE: Richard Mouw of Fuller Theological Seminary

The wheels have come off this seminary a long time ago...

This school recently granted official recognition to the first homosexual student group.

http://christiannews.net/2013/07/16/prominent-christian-seminary-grants-official-recognition-to-first-homosexual-student-group/


22 posted on 11/17/2013 7:46:48 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Ripliancum

Get back to me when the Mormons quit putting our Savior’s Garden Experience above his Cross Experience.

It was the what Jesus did on the Cross that saved us, not his Garden Experience.

Without the Cross, there is no forgiveness, no redemption, no Heaven.

With that one single tenant of their belief system, the Gulf between Christianity and Mormonism is as wide as the Chasm of Hell.


23 posted on 11/17/2013 8:23:56 AM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: Normandy
That’s certainly not the case. We hold Christ to be the Savior and Redeemer of all mankind. The only possible means of salvation.

And yet your church downgrades the cross below the Garden of Gethsemane. Thereby dooming yourselves, among other theological falsehoods, to hell.
24 posted on 11/17/2013 8:25:54 AM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: Ripliancum

Evangelical leader is wrong


25 posted on 11/17/2013 8:27:00 AM PST by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.))
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