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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I once has a Calvinist as a teacher who insisted that once you’re saved you’re always saved. A student asked him “well, what about those that were Christians, and then turned against their faith?”

“Well, they were never saved in the first place”

“But they believed they were, while they weren’t. How can we know that we are truly saved then?

“We can’t. We won’t know for sure until we’re in heaven.”

So basically, there is security in your faith as a Calvinist. One of the many reasons I reject Calvinism.


10 posted on 11/04/2013 3:33:34 PM PST by MNDude
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To: MNDude; All

Would that teacher, in your opinion, say that what he said could be applied to any pastor/preacher, even himself - even MacArthur?

Just wondering...


12 posted on 11/04/2013 3:37:30 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: MNDude

Your friend’s response saddens me. Don’t judge Calvinism based on his half-baked answer. I wish I had time to get into this discussion now, but all I have time to say is that I lacked real assurance until I understood and accepted the Doctrines of Grace. Next to being saved, that understanding was the best thing that ever happened to me.


17 posted on 11/04/2013 3:45:12 PM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: MNDude

“We can’t. We won’t know for sure until we’re in heaven.”


I don,t know if he is absolutely right or not but i respect that attitude more than the ones out there telling the world they are saved when the evidence shows some of them are nothing but charlatans.


34 posted on 11/04/2013 4:25:46 PM PST by ravenwolf
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To: MNDude

“So basically, there is security in your faith as a Calvinist. One of the many reasons I reject Calvinism.”


It’s a security wrought from the Bible, which declares that whoever leaves the faith, was never a part of it to begin with:

1Jn_2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

But the false premise of your argument is that men are justified by a mere intellectual assent, which, in that case, even Demons could be said to be believers. The faith in Christ that a believer has is founded within the heart, and shews itself by its new way of living. This person may not be perfect. This person, indeed, may be a rotten sinner, who every day fails, but his faith is such that he can cry out, like Saint Paul, with the following words:

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”
(Rom 7:14-25)

One can know a Christian by the degree he hates himself, and despairs of himself, to never be saved by his own working and willing, but gives it all to God as the source and author of his salvation.


42 posted on 11/04/2013 4:58:17 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: MNDude
So basically, there is no security in your faith as a Calvinist.

My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus and His righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame but only lean on Jesus name.

I can't demand or expect mercy but I can trust in His perogative and right to render it.

60 posted on 11/04/2013 8:19:18 PM PST by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific)
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