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Texas' Largest Presbyterian Church (USA) Congregation Votes to Leave Denomination
Christian Post ^ | 10-30-2013 | Michael Gryboski

Posted on 10/30/2013 5:34:57 PM PDT by ReformationFan

The largest Presbyterian Church (USA) congregation in Texas has voted to leave the mainline denomination over theological differences.

Highland Park Presbyterian Church of Dallas, which has approximately 4,000 members, overwhelmingly approved a resolution recently that would involve the congregation seeking dismissal from PC (USA).

Eighty-nine percent of the members present at the Congregational and Corporate Meeting held at the church voted in favor of leaving PC (USA).

Last month, Highland Park Presbyterian leadership unanimously approved a resolution to begin the process of dismissal from PC (USA).

The Session recommended dismissal from the mainline denomination and membership into the newer more conservative body known as the Evangelical Covenant Order (ECO) of Presbyterians.

Monty Montgomery, elder and co-moderator of the Session-Appointed Discernment Coordinating Committee at HPPC, told The Christian Post that the process of joining ECO has already begun.

(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: billygraham; dallas; highlandpark; megachurch; nelsonbell; nelsonbellii; parkcities; parkcitiespca; pcusa; presbyterian; presbyterianism; religiousleft; schism; texas
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While I'm certainly sympathetic to the church which has Billy Graham's brother-in-law by Nelson Bell II as one of its teaching elders(and if memory serves me correctly, I thought his father Nelson Bell I was also one of the pastors there at one time), why didn't they leave over 20 years ago and join the PCA? Many Bible believing Presbyterians did and founded Park Cities Presbyterian in Dallas.
1 posted on 10/30/2013 5:34:57 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

Better late than never, sister...


2 posted on 10/30/2013 5:37:01 PM PDT by utahagen
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To: ReformationFan

the big “mainline: churches seem to have embraced as much hooey as one could imagine at this point what with their “gay” “marriages” “mother God Father God nonsense...and in once case I witnessed in an Episcopal Church... a priest using scatological language IN THE PULPIT.


3 posted on 10/30/2013 5:39:04 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: ReformationFan

Great question.

I looked at the ECO website, can’t figure out what they are all about. Any insights?


4 posted on 10/30/2013 5:47:58 PM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: MeshugeMikey
the big “mainline: churches seem to have embraced as much hooey as one could imagine at this point what with their “gay” “marriages” “mother God Father God nonsense...and in once case I witnessed in an Episcopal Church... a priest using scatological language IN THE PULPIT.

"HOOEY"--what a WONderful word, so fitting and appropriate.
Not far from my neighborhood some lesbians have a church, painted purple, and call it "HerChurch."
They used to have pews but so few people showed up that they took down the pews and put in folding chairs. So when six people show up on Sunday morning, it's EASY to accommodate the congregation. THEY are full of hooey, if you ask me. DisGUSTing.

5 posted on 10/30/2013 6:00:41 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: ReformationFan

Better late than never. Every loser I meet from the PCUSA is essentially a universalist of some kind who favors gay marriage. I’ve literally never met a good one.


6 posted on 10/30/2013 6:06:11 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: cloudmountain

At least the lesbian church is honest, unlike the PCUSA.


7 posted on 10/30/2013 6:07:05 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: kaehurowing
At least the lesbian church is honest, unlike the PCUSA.

I suppose you might have a point.
Since there is NO SUCH thing as a "gay" gene, homosexuals CHOOSE their lifestyle. I can't get over the abnormality of that choice. Call me old-fashioned. But I do understand your point.

8 posted on 10/30/2013 6:10:46 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain

HER Church?? now thats HOOEY!!

I was unable to make my transportation connection to my regular church one Sunday...and attended a large Episcopal Church where the earlier mentioned..LANGUAGE issue occurred....

The folks I went there with have since stopped attending when they became aware that said congregation.. had “celebrated” “their” first “gay” marriage” ..

tomorrows....:”THEIR” day I guess....


9 posted on 10/30/2013 6:11:12 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: kaehurowing

What’s the point in having churches if values are no longer an issue?


10 posted on 10/30/2013 6:13:01 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Liberal: greedy person who charges their grandchildren for today's party)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Better late than never. Every loser I meet from the PCUSA is essentially a universalist of some kind who favors gay marriage. I’ve literally never met a good one.

Our neighbors across the street were Episcopalians. There were six children and one of the daughters was my age. She and I were best friends.

The ONLY time I envied her was when she got to dress up in a long ball gown for her "RAINBOW GIRLS" events.

11 posted on 10/30/2013 6:13:51 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: ReformationFan

late but at least its not never


12 posted on 10/30/2013 6:15:04 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: MeshugeMikey
HER Church?? now thats HOOEY!!
I was unable to make my transportation connection to my regular church one Sunday...and attended a large Episcopal Church where the earlier mentioned..LANGUAGE issue occurred....
The folks I went there with have since stopped attending when they became aware that said congregation.. had “celebrated” “their” first “gay” marriage” ..
tomorrows....:”THEIR” day I guess.

TOMORROW BELONGS TO ME
Remember that song from the movie "CABARET"? Great movie, but scary. It was well done in showing how/why Germany, backed into a corner, did what it did.

I had a guide in Austria once who thought it was amusing that MOST people thought Hitler was German. I wasn't amused at all.

There is NOTHING "gay" about homosexuality. It is inherently wrong and aberrant. God made Adam and EVE, not Adam and STEVE.

13 posted on 10/30/2013 6:18:43 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: ReformationFan
While I'm certainly sympathetic to the church which has Billy Graham's brother-in-law by Nelson Bell II as one of its teaching elders(and if memory serves me correctly, I thought his father Nelson Bell I was also one of the pastors there at one time), why didn't they leave over 20 years ago and join the PCA? Many Bible believing Presbyterians did and founded Park Cities Presbyterian in Dallas.

see what "denominations" can do??? anything they want..there are no more rules as to what is and what is not Christianity....

14 posted on 10/30/2013 6:31:45 PM PDT by terycarl (common sense prevails over all)
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To: MeshugeMikey
the big “mainline: churches seem to have embraced as much hooey as one could imagine at this point what with their “gay” “marriages” “mother God Father God nonsense...and in once case I witnessed in an Episcopal Church... a priest using scatological language IN THE PULPIT.

Twenty years ago, we were new in town and scouting out churches. We visited one of the PCUSA churches. The Lord's Prayer included "Our Father and Mother in heaven".

well, scratch that one from the list.

15 posted on 10/30/2013 6:55:01 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You keep using that verse, but I do not think it means what you think it means.")
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To: cloudmountain
Gay is a BITTER word that reaches the heights of cynicism when used by homosexuals.

theyre no more "gay".... than poor Harry here.....






16 posted on 10/30/2013 6:58:35 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: Gamecock
I looked at the ECO website, can’t figure out what they are all about. Any insights?

Doctrinal statement includes the PCUSA's "Book of Confessions", not straight up Westminster Standards.

The way I read it is, PCUSA, but they drew the line at the gay thing. Most of the real conservatives left long ago. The PCUSA is getting filtered over and over. Eventually there will be no one left who sees any need to leave.

17 posted on 10/30/2013 6:59:13 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You keep using that verse, but I do not think it means what you think it means.")
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To: cloudmountain

Rainbow Girls are an organization for young girls that is sponsored by the Masonic and Eastern Star organizations. I was one when I was a teenager and I can assure you that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the gay-lesbian agenda. It is actually more closely related to Christianity. They try to teach the girls high moral values, as well as poise and grace. The girls do get to dress up in formal gowns for special events.


18 posted on 10/30/2013 6:59:20 PM PDT by srmorton (Deut. 30 19: "..I have set before you life and death,....therefore, choose life..")
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To: Lee N. Field

thats considered “mainline”....here in CULT ravaged Marin County CA..

The church I attend is tiny...and out of the way...but its theology....is true and clear.

I live within a five minute walk of a large Presbyterian Church...maybe a minute form a large Catholic Church..and ten minutes by bike from the nearest Episcopal Church they’re all off center,


19 posted on 10/30/2013 7:02:59 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: MeshugeMikey

“The church I attend is tiny...and out of the way...but its theology....is true and clear.”

May I ask is what type of a church it is(e.g., a Bible church, PCA, LCMS or something else?)


20 posted on 10/30/2013 7:08:01 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

Its an Episcopalian Church. The rector...the pastor...is a former cop from Georgia..who was ordained on Alaska of all places.

he made a quip on Sunday relative to Passing It So We Can Find Out Whats In It....

Its a heavily conservative.bunch of people.


21 posted on 10/30/2013 7:12:06 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: MeshugeMikey

Is it affiliated with the REC(Reformed Episcopal Church) or with the conservative Anglican movement under the authority of African bishops?


22 posted on 10/30/2013 7:16:06 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

It must really suck to have to split off from a congregation because it went south, so to speak.


23 posted on 10/30/2013 7:29:08 PM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: ReformationFan

Im not certain of the “official” affiliation.

we had a pastor who retired about three years ago..and spent quite a while searching for one who met the specifications.

No Gay Marriage..

The Ten Commandments are NOT suggestions.

A couple of the wanna be prospects...were something to behold ..I can assure you


24 posted on 10/30/2013 7:39:48 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: ReformationFan

I’m trying to figure out the difference between the ECO and PCA. Is ECO semi-liberal?


25 posted on 10/30/2013 8:00:43 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It

That’s why I like to attend a church that firmly holds to a Biblically orthodox confession of faith and affirms things like the inerrancy of Scripture, the virgin birth and bodily resurrection of Christ, life, natural marriage and the natural family and limits the office of elders to males only.


26 posted on 10/30/2013 8:04:14 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

Actually the majority of the church voted to leave. But the rules that were in place was a 2/3 vote was required (I think that is the number)

Clayton Bell (Dr. Nelson Bell’s son)was the pastor at that time and advocated staying within PCUSA and working to reform it from within (which probably caused a percentage of the congregation to vote to stay rather than leave), but most felt that the denomination as a whole was too far gone.

It was very unfortunate that even though a majority wanted to leave at that time it just wasn’t quite a large enough percentage to be able to leave under the rules. It was really close, something like 62% and we needed 66%, so that is why it was so heartbreaking and painful for that church at the time.

These were rules that had been put in place when the Southern Presbyterian church (I think it was PCUS?) rejoined with the Northern church in the 1970s; The Southern Presbyterian denomination was still fairly conservative, but the northern pres denom was very liberal. They had put in rules that within a certain number of years a former southern Presbyterian church could leave with its property if they decided they didn’t want to remain within the “merged” denomination, but only with a fairly high percentage of the vote - they made it a pretty high hurdle to jump over.


27 posted on 10/30/2013 8:04:37 PM PDT by boxlunch (Psalm 2)
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To: ReformationFan
While I'm certainly sympathetic to the church which has Billy Graham's brother-in-law by Nelson Bell II as one of its teaching elders(and if memory serves me correctly, I thought his father Nelson Bell I was also one of the pastors there at one time), why didn't they leave over 20 years ago and join the PCA? Many Bible believing Presbyterians did and founded Park Cities Presbyterian in Dallas.

There are still quite a few very conservative PCUSA congregations that have hung around to fight for the local properties that they built themselves. I have in-laws who've spent their lives in a strong, Bible believing church in exurban North Carolina, and they've been ready to jump for years. Now that PCUSA's congregations have won the right to leave the denomination intact, we can expect to see all of the remaining good ones leave that rotting corpse in the very near future.

28 posted on 10/30/2013 8:09:04 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: boxlunch

‘It was very unfortunate that even though a majority wanted to leave at that time it just wasn’t quite a large enough percentage to be able to leave under the rules. It was really close, something like 62% and we needed 66%, so that is why it was so heartbreaking and painful for that church at the time.

These were rules that had been put in place when the Southern Presbyterian church (I think it was PCUS?) rejoined with the Northern church in the 1970s; The Southern Presbyterian denomination was still fairly conservative, but the northern pres denom was very liberal. They had put in rules that within a certain number of years a former southern Presbyterian church could leave with its property if they decided they didn’t want to remain within the “merged” denomination, but only with a fairly high percentage of the vote - they made it a pretty high hurdle to jump over.’

I have no trouble believing the liberals in the Northern church would put impose such requirements on the Biblical conservatives so they could try to infiltrate and take over.

Thank you for the information about the Highland Park/Park Cities split. The good thing is that God brought Park Cities PCA into existence and a lot of good has come from that wonderful church.


29 posted on 10/30/2013 8:10:26 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Always A Marine

I hope so. And that the Biblically conservative churches stay true to God’s word.


30 posted on 10/30/2013 8:12:03 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: MeshugeMikey
I'm curious whether your church use the 1892 or 1928 prayer book . . . or the ghastly 1979 revision.

Full disclosure: I'm Roman Catholic.

31 posted on 10/30/2013 8:22:02 PM PDT by Oratam (Thank you St. Jude!)
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To: Oratam

To be honest I dont know...but some OF the Prayer books look as though they have been in use ..since the 2o’s.


32 posted on 10/30/2013 8:30:10 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: boxlunch
These were rules that had been put in place when the Southern Presbyterian church (I think it was PCUS?) rejoined with the Northern church in the 1970s; The Southern Presbyterian denomination was still fairly conservative, but the northern pres denom was very liberal. They had put in rules that within a certain number of years a former southern Presbyterian church could leave with its property if they decided they didn’t want to remain within the “merged” denomination, but only with a fairly high percentage of the vote - they made it a pretty high hurdle to jump over.

When my denomination, the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), split from the PCUS in 1973, one of its founding principles was that each local congregation would own its own property. If the PCA were to ever fall into the kind of apostasy that destroyed its corrupt parent, its congregations would be free to leave. And we would!

33 posted on 10/30/2013 8:31:32 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: ReformationFan
I hope so. And that the Biblically conservative churches stay true to God’s word.

Amen! I can assure you that our Session would initiate separation in a heartbeat if the PCA ever fell into apostasy.

34 posted on 10/30/2013 8:37:37 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: MeshugeMikey

I have a friend, an Episcopalian, who stumbled onto a little summer chapel in a Jersey shore town that used the 1928 prayer book and he was very impressed with both its language and its orthodox theology. The chapel was “endowed” and had tremendous autonomy from the bishop and the national church.


35 posted on 10/30/2013 8:38:17 PM PDT by Oratam (Thank you St. Jude!)
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To: Oratam

This Church is very much like that except for the financial autonomy.


36 posted on 10/30/2013 8:39:45 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: MeshugeMikey

37 posted on 10/30/2013 8:44:07 PM PDT by Oratam (Thank you St. Jude!)
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To: Always A Marine
When my denomination, the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), split from the PCUS in 1973, one of its founding principles was that each local congregation would own its own property. If the PCA were to ever fall into the kind of apostasy that destroyed its corrupt parent, its congregations would be free to leave. And we would!

And that is as it should be! That the liberal denomination holds the congregation hostage for its property is just so evil. That property (and really, the property of any church) represents the time, talents, gifts, love, and sacrifices of many members through many generations. This is a church that has done evangelism, Bible teaching, sent many, many missionaries overseas and ministered in poor communities in Dallas, they have used that beautiful property with excellent stewardship.

The denomination just sees the $ signs and holds them hostage for that. Some say that the denomination is so apostate and they should just leave (and they should), but I am glad they are putting up a fight for the property and am praying the Lord will let them find favor in the secular court system. I hope any on this thread reading about this and interested will pray for them too.

38 posted on 10/30/2013 8:59:56 PM PDT by boxlunch (Psalm 2)
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To: srmorton
Rainbow Girls are an organization for young girls that is sponsored by the Masonic and Eastern Star organizations. I was one when I was a teenager and I can assure you that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the gay-lesbian agenda. It is actually more closely related to Christianity. They try to teach the girls high moral values, as well as poise and grace. The girls do get to dress up in formal gowns for special events.

I didn't say that the Rainbow girls had anything to do with the gay-lesbian agenda. I KNOW what the Rainbow girls were all about. Remember these were my NEIGHBORS...for years and years. I KNOW what they try to teach the girls. You're preaching to the choir.

39 posted on 10/30/2013 9:01:29 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Oratam

Amen!


40 posted on 10/30/2013 9:02:31 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: Always A Marine
Now that PCUSA's congregations have won the right to leave the denomination intact, we can expect to see all of the remaining good ones leave that rotting corpse in the very near future.

Has that become a new legal precedent? I thought it was a case by case basis and just decided on the whim of a local judge, but what you say sounds encouraging. I was wondering of the timing of this (we don't attend there any more as we moved away but am following this because we still really care for that church.)

41 posted on 10/30/2013 9:03:35 PM PDT by boxlunch (Psalm 2)
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To: MeshugeMikey
Gay is a BITTER word that reaches the heights of cynicism when used by homosexuals.
theyre no more "gay".... than poor Harry here....

I know. My mother and I always deprecated the homosexual community absconding with a PERFECTLY good word like gay. The "gay" caballero...remember that movie? I do. "Gay Paree"?

Those folks aren't GAY, they are homosexuals, a CHOICE they made some time in their early-mid teens.

42 posted on 10/30/2013 9:04:56 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: boxlunch
Has that become a new legal precedent? I thought it was a case by case basis and just decided on the whim of a local judge, but what you say sounds encouraging. I was wondering of the timing of this (we don't attend there any more as we moved away but am following this because we still really care for that church.)

I don't know what the specific trigger was. My brother-in-law, an RE in a conservative North Carolina PCUSA church, recently told me about a standard established for a congregation to leave the denomination with their property. The standard is high, but the PCUSA's ever-worsening apostasy is making that barrier progressively easier to reach.

43 posted on 10/30/2013 9:15:06 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: cloudmountain
I figured that you did! It was because you capitalized the word that I thought other people who were unfamiliar with the organization might interpret your comment incorrectly. I hate how certain words like “gay” and symbols such as the rainbow (which signified God's promise that he would never again destroy the world by water) have been corrupted by the leftist agenda.
44 posted on 10/30/2013 9:57:28 PM PDT by srmorton (Deut. 30 19: "..I have set before you life and death,....therefore, choose life..")
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To: ReformationFan

We attend a Daughter congregation from Park Cities Presbyterian..PROVIDENCE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, in North Dallas. We are “busting at the seams” so to speak..many small Presbyterian Churches in Dallas have been started as Mission Churches from Park Cities..Soon, we will have our own mission Church starting from Providence Presbyterian.. other mission churches in the DFW area are doing the same as well..


45 posted on 10/30/2013 9:59:26 PM PDT by Biblical Calvinist (Soli Deo Gloria !)
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To: Always A Marine

Indeed. That’s one reason I chose to join a PCA church myself.


46 posted on 10/30/2013 10:07:07 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Biblical Calvinist

‘We attend a Daughter congregation from Park Cities Presbyterian..PROVIDENCE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, in North Dallas. We are “busting at the seams” so to speak..many small Presbyterian Churches in Dallas have been started as Mission Churches from Park Cities..Soon, we will have our own mission Church starting from Providence Presbyterian.. other mission churches in the DFW area are doing the same as well..’

That’s wonderful. Like you screen name and tagline. And since it’s now Oct. 31st, Happy Reformation Day to you!


47 posted on 10/30/2013 10:08:17 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: cloudmountain

The “Gay Blade”...was a term that we no longer hear....

I first heard the term used in the early 6o’s..and was stunned at how foolish it was.

“Gay” Blade..”gay” caballero..and “Gay Paree”...”replaced” by “Gay” “pride”

the Misnomer of all Misnomers


48 posted on 10/31/2013 6:25:29 AM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( Visit http://icantenroll.com/)
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To: ReformationFan

Good for them. It takes a couple of years to leave a denomination and affiliate with a new one. At one time PCUSA was conservative, but it has been taken up by radical liberals.


49 posted on 10/31/2013 6:29:06 AM PDT by CityCenter (Resist Obamacare!)
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To: Gamecock

ECO is a good group. They adhere to traditional Christian teaching that is schripturally based. I church I used to belong to in Yakima recently made this change. They have it documented on their website, really interesting to read through all the steps they took to make the change.


50 posted on 10/31/2013 6:30:57 AM PDT by CityCenter (Resist Obamacare!)
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