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Jesus As Mary's First-Born
The Orthodox Presbyterian Church ^

Posted on 09/03/2013 5:38:10 PM PDT by Gamecock

Question:

It is obvious that Mary had children after Jesus was born. As long as Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, why was it necessary that Mary have no previous children? I am not asking why it was necessary that Jesus be conceived by the Holy Spirit—I understand that. I guess my question is, Why would it matter that Mary had other children first, as long as Jesus was conceived by the Spirit?

Answer:

I agree with you that from what is said in Scripture, it appears to be "obvious that Mary had children after Jesus was born. " Take, for example, this passage:

2When the Sabbath came, he [Jesus] began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed. "Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! 3Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?".... (Mark 6:2-3, New International Version)

It has been argued (particularly by those who believe in the "perpetual virginity" of Mary) that the word translated "brother" (Greek "adelphos," as in "Philadelphia," "the city of brotherly love") might be taken as "cousin," but the context surely indicates that we are not talking about several households here, but one.

Incidentally, perhaps it should be noted in passing that although Jesus, James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon were all of the same household and all had Mary as their mother, Mary's husband Joseph was the physical father of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon, but not of Jesus, who was conceived of the Holy Spirit (see Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:35). Thus, technically speaking, Jesus and his "brothers" were "half-brothers," since they only shared the same mother, but it would certainly be understandable for those in Nazareth who personally knew of the family to regard the five sons as "brothers."

Consider, also, how this passage speaks of the birth of Jesus:

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him 'Immanuel' which means, 'God with us'." 24When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus. (Matt. 1:22-25, NIV)

The words "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son" certainly seem to suggest that after Mary gave birth to Jesus, Joseph did have union with her and that, having given birth to one Child, she gave birth to other children as well.

But let's get to the heart of your question: "Why was it necessary that Mary have no previous children?.... Why would it matter that Mary had other children first, as long as Jesus was conceived by the Spirit?

Here's the simple answer: It was necessary for Jesus to be born of a virgin to fulfill Isaiah's prophecy:

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. (Is. 7:14, NIV)

Speaking of the birth of Christ of a virgin, Matthew (as we have already seen) says this:

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel." (Matt. 1:22-23, NIV)

Although the exact meaning of the Hebrew word "'almah" in Isaiah 7:14 has been disputed (some—ignoring the context—take it as simply "young woman of marriageable age"), there is absolutely no dispute over the meaning of the Greek word "parthenos" in Matthew 1:23, which can have no other meaning than "virgin" (and Matthew 1:23 supplies us with an inspired interpretation of Isaiah 7:14).

Thus Scriptural prophecy found its fulfillment when our Savior was, in the familiar words of the Apostles' Creed, "conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of the virgin Mary."


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicism; mary; opc; protestantism; revisionisthistory; theology
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1 posted on 09/03/2013 5:38:10 PM PDT by Gamecock
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To: metmom; Alex Murphy; blue-duncan; boatbums

From our beloved friends at the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.


2 posted on 09/03/2013 5:40:48 PM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: Gamecock
It is obvious that Mary had children after Jesus was born.

holy cow...waiting for the popcorn emoticon. :)

3 posted on 09/03/2013 5:41:57 PM PDT by ZinGirl (kids in college....can't afford a tagline right now)
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To: Gamecock
It is obvious that Mary had children after Jesus was born.

Name them. Guess they were too busy with personal affairs, to attend their brother's crucifixion and console their mother.

4 posted on 09/03/2013 5:43:35 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

Holy Mary, Mother of God..


5 posted on 09/03/2013 5:45:19 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

Well, if you can get people to agree with the idea that she had other children, the possibility exists that one of them was gay, another might have been black, and a third might have been transgendered.

See? Even Jesus had family members that could be Obama’s son.

She might have had an abortion (or three) for all we know.


6 posted on 09/03/2013 5:46:57 PM PDT by IncPen (When you start talking about what we 'should' have, you've made the case for the Second Amendment)
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To: NYer
Name them.

James is the only one named in scripture, but John 7 speaks of brothers plural.

7 posted on 09/03/2013 5:51:17 PM PDT by DaveyB (Note to the NSA agent monitering this: the peace of tyranny is the enemy of humanity)
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To: NYer
Name them.

... James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?".... The sisters, however, were not named here. The family was probably back in or around the family home, and did not make the trip to Jerusalem as Mary did.

8 posted on 09/03/2013 5:51:28 PM PDT by Ingtar (The NSA - "We're the only part of government who actually listens to the people.")
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To: trisham
Holy Mary, Mother of God..

Mortal Mary, Mother of Jesus. There fixed it for you.

9 posted on 09/03/2013 5:54:43 PM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: NYer
Matthew 12:46-47

"While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

Matthew 13:55

"Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

Mark 6:2-3

"And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"

To name a few.

10 posted on 09/03/2013 5:55:21 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: BipolarBob

Thank you for caring, friend.


11 posted on 09/03/2013 5:55:42 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer
Name them.

Bob, Marty & Francine.

12 posted on 09/03/2013 5:56:41 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: Gamecock
It is obvious that Mary had children after Jesus was born.

You could have made this a caucus thread. It would have short and edifying. (Is there a rageboy emoticon?)

13 posted on 09/03/2013 6:03:07 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: ZinGirl; F15Eagle; Larry Lucido
holy cow...waiting for the popcorn emoticon. :)

Will this work for you?


14 posted on 09/03/2013 6:03:19 PM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: NYer

James, Jude, Joseph (Joses), and Simon. Jesus also had sisters, but they are not named.


15 posted on 09/03/2013 6:04:50 PM PDT by madison10
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Lee N. Field
Is there a rageboy emoticon?

I just spewed partially eaten popcorn all over my laptop!

17 posted on 09/03/2013 6:05:49 PM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: DaveyB
James is the only one named in scripture, but John 7 speaks of brothers plural.

Jude. He wrote the book of the same name.

18 posted on 09/03/2013 6:06:04 PM PDT by madison10
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To: Gamecock; zot

Thank you for this post.


19 posted on 09/03/2013 6:07:58 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Gamecock

You apparently don’t even read your own stuff. You HAD the answer right in your posting.....in the NIV.

Here it is in the KJV:

Mark 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses (Joseph), and of Juda (Jude), and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Those named were actually his half-siblings; same mother as Jesus, but different father; Joseph. The Epistle of JUDE was written by the half-brother Jude, mentioned in verse 3, above; and the JAMES mentioned wrote the Epistle of James.

The reason the siblings were not there for moral support on Good Friday was because they did not believe in Him. That didn’t happen until after His resurrection and they could no longer deny Him.


20 posted on 09/03/2013 6:10:39 PM PDT by Tucker39
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