Posted on 08/05/2013 6:15:40 PM PDT by wmfights
I composed most of a reply last night, but didn’t click post and now it’s gone. I remember it started “Good, so do I...”
If God knows everything you’re ever going to do when you are created by Him, then it is impossible to argue that you have any choice whatsoever. You have only the perception of choice. In the Bible, Adam and Eve had no choice, likewise Mary, nor Jesus, or anyone else.
If God knows everything you’re ever going to do when you are created by Him, then it is impossible to argue that you have any choice whatsoever. You have only the perception of choice. In the Bible, Adam and Eve had no choice, likewise Mary, nor Jesus, or anyone else.
We are just assuming by some scripture that God knows everything we are ever going to do.
Clip:
...In the Jewish Midrash, an expansion of the Talmud that clarifies historical and moral teachings, the Sages teach that the creation of the soul of Adam, and the six days of Genesis are separate events (Schroeder).
Still, how do six days of creation equal fifteen billion years? According to the calculations of the 13th century Kabbalist, Rabbi Isaac of Acco, the universe is precisely 15,340,500,000 years old.
The calculation proceeds as follows:
According to the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 97a, " R. Kattina said: Six thousand years shall the world exist, and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate…". Ancient and medieval Kabbalists such as Nehunya ben HaKanah, in Sefer HaTemunah (written about 100 AD) and Rabbi Isaac of Acco understood these seven thousand years a running parallel to the Jewish Sabbatical cycle. In this cycle the fields are planted and harvested for six years and left unplanted in the seventh year.
Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, who apart from being a rabbi, also held a master’s degree in physics, cites the calculations of Rabbi Isaac of Acco in his commentaries on the book Sefer Yehzirah: The Book of Creation. This book has an oral tradition going back to Abraham, but was first committed to writing about 1500 years ago. In his commentary on this book Rabbi Kaplan writes:
"According to the master Kabbalist, Rabbi Isaac of Acco, when counting the years of these cycles, one must not use an ordinary physical year, but rather, a divine year. The Midrash says that each divine day is a thousand years, basing this on the verse, "A thousand years in Your sight are but as yesterday" (Psalm 90:4). Since each year contains 364 ¼ days, a divine year would be 365,250 years long.
According to this, each cycle of seven thousand divine years would consist of 2,556,750,000 earthly years. This figure of two-and-a-half billion years is very close to the scientific estimate as to the length of time that life has existed on earth.
If we assume that the seventh cycle began with the Biblical account of creation, then this would have occurred when the universe was 15,340,500,000 years old. This is very close to the scientific estimate that the expansion of the universe began some fifteen billion years ago" (Kaplan 186).
That a thirteenth century rabbi could have so accurately calculated the age of the universe, using only the Scriptures and Jewish traditions, is astounding. It would take science nearly seven hundred more years to arrive at this same figure...
http://www.yashanet.com/library/missing_link.htm
This is really good!
http://www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/background.htm
Now it's my turn...
If you want to get closer to the scientific date of the universe plug in the lunar year numbers. After all the Hebrew word for year is Shana, Shin Nun Hei.
Gematria of Shana is
Shin = 300
Nun = 50
Hei =5
A lunar calendar is a calendar that is based on cycles of the lunar phase. Because there are about twelve lunations (synodic months) in a solar year, this period (354.37 days) is sometimes referred to as a lunar year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_calendar
By using the lunar calendar and the above formula I calculate the age of the universe to be 14,883,540,000 year old. We'll see. Ha!
Now head over to Yashanet and get busy!
“If God knows everything you’re ever going to do when you are created by Him, then it is impossible to argue that you have any choice whatsoever.”
Do you really want to try this gross fallacy of the undistributed middle? You just cancelled any credibility you may have accumulated!
Yes, I think you're right. Everything now is a mental or genetic issue which can be cured with the right medicine. While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with some of this, most of it is a cleaver disguise for ignoring the root problem-sin. We just don't want to deal with the hole that is in our soul waiting to be filled.
Just because He knows you will do something, since He is outside space and time and sees the beginning to the end of human history, doesn’t mean He causes you to do that something. It is still your choice to do it or not.
He does know everything we are ever going to do.
Thanks for the link, dear mad_as_he$$!
Ber 1.14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
= L'Shanah Tovah = 407 = אות = "sign"
He does know everything we are ever going to do.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/stewart.cfm?ID=363
I post the entire article here, ravenwolf, because I’ve noticed that sometimes it’s not read by the person I am replying to. Some don’t like to click on outside links, I guess.
Grab a bible and start reading and teaching yourself. You can know these things and be certain because they are laid out in His Word. The Bible tells us that God is omniscient.
Best,
jodyel
Does God Know Everything That Could Possibly Happen?
The Bible teaches that God not only knows everything that will happen, He also knows everything that could potentially happen. The Bible gives several examples of this.
The Episode Of David And Saul
Scripture gives the following episode.
When David knew that Saul plotted evil against him, he said to Abiathar the priest, “Bring the ephod here.” Then David said, “O Lord God of Israel, your servant has certainly heard that Saul seeks to come to Keilah to destroy the city for my sake. “Will the men of Keilah deliver me into his hand? Will Saul come down, as your servant has heard? O Lord God of Israel, I pray, tell your servant.” And the Lord said, “He will come down.” Then David said, “Will the men of Keilah deliver me and my men into the hand of Saul?” And the Lord said, “They will deliver you.” So David and his men, about six hundred, arose and departed from Keilah and went wherever they could go. Then it was told Saul that David had escaped from Keilah; so he halted the expedition (2 Samuel 23:9-13).
Here we find a great example of God knowing all future possibilities. David and his men were in the city of Keilah. David asked the Lord what would happen if Saul came to Keilah. Would the men of Keilah deliver David and his men over to his enemy King Saul? The Lord answered with a yes. If Saul came to destroy Keilah, the men of that city would not fight. They would hand over David and his men to Saul. This is the fate that awaited David if Saul came to Keilah. Once David had that knowledge, he and his men escaped, preventing his being taken captive by Saul.
God, therefore told David about a potential event in the future that never happened. God’s knowledge extends to not only actual events that will occur, but every possible event that could occur. This gives further testimony to the omniscience of God. God not only knows what actually will happen, He also knows what potentially would have happened had David remained.
David Did Not Change The Future
Some people mistakenly think that David changed the future by leaving Keilah. But this is not what the Scripture says. We do not find God saying that it was ordained that David by captured by Saul at Keilah. David did not change the future by leaving the city. God know what David’s response would be and that he and his men would leave before Saul arrived. Therefore we do not find here an example of a human being changing the preordained future.
God Continued To Protect David
We find God continuing to protect David from Saul after he left the city of Keilah.
And David stayed in strongholds in the wilderness, and remained in the mountains in the Wilderness of Ziph. Saul sought him every day, but God did not deliver him into his hand (2 Samuel 23:14).
Jesus And The Cities That Did Not Repent
We find in the ministry of Jesus an example of what would have happened to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Tyre and Sidon.
Then he began to reproach the cities in which most of his deeds of power had been done, because they did not repent. “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades. For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom than for you (Matthew 11:20-24).
In this case we have Jesus comparing the cities of Capernaum, Chorazin and Bethsaida to Sodom and Gomorrah and Tyre and Sidon. If the miracles that Jesus performed in these three cities around the Sea of Galilee would have been performed In the cities that were judged in the past – Tyre and Sidon and Sodom and Gomorrah, then these people would have repented. However, the miracles were not performed and they did not repent. This gives us an example of Jesus, God the Son, knowing what would have happened had these cities been visited by Him and His miraculous deeds. It is another example of God knowing all future possibilities.
Summary
From Scripture we discover that God knows all things that will happen and he also knows all things that may potentially happen. Biblical examples of David and Saul, as well as the Lord Jesus and the cities that did not repent, illustrate the truth of God’s knowledge of all potential events.
The Lord told David that if he stayed in the city of Keilah the people of that city would hand him over to Saul. David did not stay in Keilah and Saul did not capture him.
Jesus said that the cities of Tyre, Sidon, Sodom and Gomorrah would have repented had they had seen Jesus’ miracles. He knew what would have happened if the miracles would have been performed in those cities.
In each of these instances God showed his knowledge of potential events. Although these events did not happen they would have happened had circumstances been different. This illustrates the truth that God knows everything that will happen as well as everything that might happen.
Grab a bible and start reading and teaching yourself. You can know these things and be certain because they are laid out in His Word. The Bible tells us that God is omniscient.
For instance God told Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit, knowing that he would eat, some people believe they had no choice, that it was Gods way of pushing them out of the nest.
And that does make some kind of sense to me.
But If we have no choice in every matter then why would Jesus tell us to repent, why would we need to repent if we had no choice?
There are some things i believe that i tried my best not to believe,( My belief in Jesus,) i had no choice.
Cor 8
2
And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know
I believe but i do not actually know anything.
I also believe from experience that God will intercede, how can one be so dumb that God has to intercede? you may ask, you don,t know me.
Thanks for the article.
Yes, we do have choice.
I could send you some heavy theological articles about that if you want them. :)
Either the Calvinists or the Arminians, can’t remember which, believe that. Here is a reply to something I posted in another thread:
I find it interesting that God even lets us question Him or Satan come before Him...it boggles my mind sometimes.”
Good points. You are noticing the extreme sovereignty that the One in whose mind all of this is taking place. He has nothing to fear from such approaches since it is just an impression that He “lets” us created beings do these things. The message of the Book, however, is that He is driving, managing these things into existence.
This is transcendent sovereignty. He really is God and He really does run everything. He even puts it into the heart of a man to sin against Him. Notice, the greatest sin of all, the execution of His Son, was done by His “predetermined PLAN and foreknowledge”. How is it that He imposes the requirement, sees to it we cannot meet it, steps up to meet it Himself, then determines who will benefit? Because He is as Paul says, “He is Potter...”
Truthfully, I don’t worry about such things. I trust He is Who He says He is. And all my experiences with Him bear that out. And, boy, have some of my choices been stellar! Not!
God gives us the power to will evil, but he doesn't ordain evil. It's an important distinction, because otherwise, God would will both good and evil.
I find it interesting that God even lets us question Him or Satan come before Him...it boggles my mind sometimes.”
Good points. You are noticing the extreme sovereignty that the One in whose mind all of this is taking place.
Yes, we do have choice.
I could send you some heavy theological articles about that if you want them. :)
Why do you say you had no choice to believe in Him?
But did you agree with anything in the second paragraph?
Hello St Thomas,
Those were not my words but the words of someone else who posted to me on another thread. Looking into it, it appears that may be Calvinism or Arminianism but I don’t remember which one.
I am starting to rue the day I posted about religious issues on FR. Twenty years ago I would have been able to keep up and prove my belief. But time, memory loss, and disability have rendered me a bit slow. I know what I know but looking up chapter and verse to prove it anymore is not easy....which is why I don’t do that very much in my posts.
One of the above has an interesting take on the evil issue. Will see if I can find and post for you.
jodyel
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