by Linda Zagzebski
Posted on 07/26/2013 2:57:13 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
:)
Beautifully said!
FWIW, in one of the courses I've taken to be better at evangelizing to muslims I read Ron Rhodes book, "Reasoning from the Scriptures with Muslims". I noted in this book that he points out that in the Apostolic Era and the generations immediately following:
"there are enough quotations, from the early church fathers that, even if we did not have a single manuscript copy of the Bible, scholars could still reconstruct all but 11 verses of the New Testament from material written within 150 to 200 years after the time of Christ." (p.205)
Christians guided by the Holy Spirit were able to discern what was inspired by God and what wasn't well before any councils of appointed theologians were convened. Taking credit for something that is clearly the work of God doesn't strengthen a position, it weakens it.
Nothing. Since they’re triple exponential predestinarians, anyone doesn’t have to do anything. It’ll happen if it’s written in the script.
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I assume this is an attempt at humor?
Good for a smile, certainly, but nowhere that I am aware (and I do attend an Orth Pres Church on occasion and actually listen to the very Scriptural messages preached there) do Orthodox Presbyterians deny personal responsibility (i.e., the requirement to own your own decisions — or the advisability of making wise choices based on the mandates of Scripture).
As I say, I “visit” an Orth Pres church, but I am not a member, as I have not personally chosen to join — so your premise fails.
Shalom.
So as for some of the claimsof the opposition, I say, come up with the proof from the Bible they claim to have written.
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Ouch!
There’s no “Ahem” about it. Most Catholics in America are just as Protestant in their understanding of morality as Protestant.
Whereas the Catholic Church condemns abortion ALWAYS, the vast majority of Protestant sects - true to the relativistic core - either embrace it or pretend their pro-life (”Abortion is wrong...except in cases of incest and rape.”).
YES, according to the Bible. 2Tim 3:16,17 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
You are in disagreement with the Bible.
The problem with you protestants is that you reject the Bible
First we are condemned for Sola Scrptura and then we get this. You are a posting contradiction.
The Bible commands you to hold unwritten teachings given by the apostles. St.(?) Aquinas jumped into save your bacon on what you meant and come to find out . . You are wrong again No such command.
You are your own pope
You posted that repeatedly after I denied it. It's worse than bad manners or against FR forum rules. Yes it is. Read Rev. 12:10.
You've posted so many inaccuracies I could write a book if I had the time and inclination.
I had not seen Salvation's quote from Luther previously but I understand that he had the same sort of veneration for Mary as Catholics do. OTOH, as a Roman Catholic, I am not going to try to get Luther a lifetime achievement award as a positive religious force.
All that having been said, I DO appreciate the gentle good humor and civility of your posts despite our theological differences and I certainly regard you and many Reformed Christians as my brothers and sisters in Christ.
I also wish that all Christians of whatever denomination might display that quality attributed to our forebears that we are the ones who love one another.
Paul in writing to timothy is speaking of the Hebrew scripture. He’s not referring to his own letter, much less to gospels and revelations not yet written.
You need to give up your man made traditions and place more trust in the Bible.
There’s no “Ahem” about it. Most Catholics in America are just as Protestant in their understanding of morality as Protestant.
Whereas the Catholic Church condemns abortion ALWAYS, the vast majority of Protestant sects - true to the relativistic core - either embrace it or pretend their pro-life (”Abortion is wrong...except in cases of incest and rape.”).
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I can see whence you come, but, let’s at least be even-handed here, shall we? I suspect you have no idea just how many “Protestant sects” there are in this country in the first place. (There are MANY — and many non-denominational congregations, as well.)
For you to say, without research, that “the vast majority” of denominations or “sects” either embrace abortion or pretend their pro-life (”Abortion is wrong...except in cases of incest and rape.”),” is — in the first place — to go out on a shaky limb.
Second, although I (with shame) have to concede that many of the larger Protestant denominations (e.g., PCUSA, ECUSA, UMC, ELCA, UCC, The Religious Society of Friends, etc) have left their biblical moorings on any number of issues — be it homosexuality or the need to evangelize the lost — and have, as you say, to their shame come out trying to justify abortion.
Nonetheless, just as many professing Catholics (e.g., Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi) defy/defied their own Church’s teaching on abortion, MANY Protestants — even some of those in the more liberal denominations — abhor abortion.
Yea, I myself would go out on a limb and say that I believe that the vast majority of Protestant believers in this country who are more than obligatory occasional pew-sitters viscerally oppose abortion — including in cases of rape or incest (as do I).
If we're believers we know that the Holy Spirit dwells within us because the scriptures tells us so. The Spirit teaches to us the things of God.
1Co 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
1Co 2:16 "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
And Catholics have no way of knowing if their megisterium and hierarchy really have the true Spirit in them either.
They are taking the word of people they have never met that it is so.
The problem with you protestants is that you reject the Bible. You shouldn't do that. It's dangerous.
LOL! The things written in scripture is so that we might believe in our Lord Jesus, have life and have it more abundantly. The problem with you Catholics is they feel the scriptures aren't enough. They have to add this and add that until what should be a simple message is nothing more than a confusing pile of nonsense.
While the Pope might be a nice guy, Christ is all we need. And He speaks to us through His word.
As a Catholic and as a recovering attorney, I would add that I represented hundreds of Reformed Christians (as well as hundreds of Catholics) in what was called "Operation Rescue" but actually had another name. The Reformed Christians were every bit as committed pro-lifers as were the Catholics.
As a Catholic, I recognize a litany of evil characters in our nation's politics who make obviously false claims to their "Catholicism" on the basis of their usually infant baptisms but have made their life's work the public repudiation of the truths of Catholicism for their personal and political profit, whoring after the support of their fellow social issue revolutionaries. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the division between Catholics and Reformed Christians on matters theological.
Babykillers and marriage destroyers (favoring lavender everything and, in some cases, obvious adultery among married straights as well) posing as "Catholics" have included VPOTUS Biden, Pelosi, Rosa DeLauro, Edward Kennedy, John Kerry, Arnold Schwarzenegger, most living Kennedys with roots in Hyannisport, Susan Collins, Christopher Dodd, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Tim Kaine, Patty Murray, Tom Harkin, Richard Durbin, Patrick Quinn, Dannell Malloy, Patrick Leahy, Martin O'Malley, Jerry Brown, Mary Landrieu, and an embarrassing laundry list of others too long to repeat. These and not good Catholics and good Reformed Christians are our enemies.
Other "Christians" (mostly "Reformed" although they need a lot more reforming on such subjects)favoring such abominations have included anyone named Clinton, Barak and Moochelle, Nancyboy Kirk, Olympia Snowe (Greek Orthodox), and another embarrassing laundry list of others falsely claiming Christianity. I will leave the actual listing to their co-religionists. These and not good Reformed Christians and good Catholics are our enemies.
As a Catholic, I do not feel I have any business stirring up strife among Reformed denominations. I will note that I have found many denominations, in my experience, to seem to be solidly pro-life: Assemblies of God, Evangelical Free Church in America, Missouri Synod Lutherans, Wisconsin Evangelical Synod Lutherans, Westminster Confession Presbyterians, many non-denominational Evangelical and Pentecostal Churches, as well as non-reformed Eastern Orthodox Churches, Mormons (other than Romney and a few individuals), and some Jehovah's Witnesses, and also many Orthodox and Chassidic Jewish Congregations, some Conservative Jewish Congregations and even a few very pro-life atheists and agnostics.
Why are we fighting and often bitterly so? We need each and every pro-lifer on board. It is all well and good to hold strong religious beliefs. Is it necessary that we engage in the never-ending food fight on a site primarily political?
So says Pope Romulus (oops taste of your own medicine LOL).
. 2Tim 3:16,17 16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."
What are the first two words of this Scripture?
I've been searching for an answer to this. I've been unsuccessful so far. I would say that the papists threw the first stone but that is not always the case.
You can only say that if you ignore the Bible. Don’t do that.
If you really believed that, you would use just a Hebrew bible.
Your argumentation skills are getting weaker with each posting. Are their any high voltage lines near you? Kryptonite? I’m sure you are a sincere person but at some point it’s time to hang up the debate shoes. Cut, paste and accuse ain’t working for you anymore.
by Linda Zagzebski
Acts 17:11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Did you notice the “more noble” comment? Earlier in Chapter 17 the Thessalonians heard what Paul said “orally” but didn’t “read what was written” to see if what he was teaching was so. So Paul says the Bereans are “more noble” because they checked with “what was written” to see if Pauls teachings were true. Catholics think you should just take the word of some self proclaimed “magesterium” without checking with the written word to “see if it’s so”.
I for one will continue to “search the scriptures daily” to see if what people teach is so. The problem with Catholics is they don’t read the scripture but just take the word of some self proclaimed “magesterium” who look them in the eye and say “trust me”.
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