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To: zerosix

I am a life-long SBC’er and am not Calvinist. The problem I’m seeing with this growing movement within the denomination is that it is splitting churches and causing all kinds of dissension.

It reminds me of the pentecostal “speaking in tongues” movement during the 1970’s and 80’s in it’s producing friction and division within the body.

I see Calvinism as having an extreme view of the doctrine of sovereignty - but that’s just me.

The underlying cause of the friction is this idea that God’s sovereignty means that He personally chooses who will be saved and who won’t. That Jesus only died for the “elect” and not the whole world.

Related to this “sovereignty” issue is the idea of the total inability of man to respond to God’s act of grace toward us - that we cannot respond without God personally intervening and “causing” us to believe - or, in popular terms, that man has no “free-will” to respond - only God can give man the faith to believe as he has no ability in himself, because of his total depravity, to respond/accept to the things of God. Calvinists seem to believe that if man can respond, on his own, to God’s offer of salvation that that somehow takes away from God’s sovereignty and God’s glory. I don’t get how our having the ability reach out and grab onto the life rope that God has thrown to us in anyway takes away from God’s glory and sovereignty. But, that’s just me.

In addition, there seems to be a new “militancy” for some Calvinists to force the issue of sovereignty, of total inability, and of no free-will.

I think most Christians are willing to work with other Christians who have differing views as long as either party doesn’t try to “evangelize” the other into their way of thinking. But, as I said, it seems like there is a new aggressiveness on the part of SOME Calvinists to convert everyone to their point of view.

In my own church we have had to deal with the issue somewhat. There are very dear and sincere Christian friends I have where we vehemently disagree on Calvinism. We’ve just had to let it go and not discuss it anymore. We just decided to serve Christ as best we can and reach out to the lost - THAT, after all, is our primary mission - right?


25 posted on 07/12/2013 11:33:10 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd

I’m sitting in a coffee shop waiting on my wife while she shops. She should be back any second so I can’t really respond. But I have a question for you. Did you know our denomination was founded by Calvinists? Did you know that 100 years ago Calvinism was the dominant Southern Baptist view? We lost it as liberalism and other issues rose within the ranks.

I took Baptist History in college ( Southern Baptist University) so I knew of our Calvinist history and it always bothered me. It was one of the reasons I finally decided to study for myself. I had a hard time reconciling what I was hearing from our pulpits with what I knew of our history. I felt like our preachers were bashing our ancestors, often in ignorance. Another thing, I grew up hearing Spurgeon quoted. He too was a Calvinist and a baptist.

Now, it doesn’t matter if mama, daddy, our founders, or Spurgeon believed it, if it doesn’t square with the a Bible I’m not believing it. Alas, once I studied Calvinism, what it really is, not the caricatures and strawmen I had heard from preachers, I was knocked out. It radically changed my life and the lives of my family.

Spurgeon said, “I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are truly and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus.”


27 posted on 07/12/2013 11:47:44 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: rusty schucklefurd

“In addition, there seems to be a new “militancy” for some Calvinists to force the issue of sovereignty, of total inability, and of no free-will.”


It is a good militancy, since the issue is so important. Just a few days ago I was reading a ridiculous book called “Sound Doctrine” by a Pentecostal man from Denmark, and also watching his videos and reading what his fans say. In the end, it came down to everyone being able to perform in the gift of healing (despite the scripture that ways “do all have the gift of healing? do all speak in tongues? do all prophecy?), and that the operation of spiritual gifts is a “fruit of the spirit” that depends on your personal submission and holiness. If you are not performing great miracles, or getting your cancer healed, there is something wrong with you. “If your soul is prospering, so will your health.”

It’s a great deal of trash, don’t you think? Obviously kin to the prosperity Gospel.

On a blog I frequent, from one of my favorite Christian authors (Karen Hancock), she was talking about a recent upheaval in her church as they all came out of an erroneous doctrine called ‘Rebound.’ Formerly, in error, their pastor used to teach that with every sin you commit, you lose the Holy Spirit, and therefore must repent in order to be refilled. Hence, “to rebound.”

All of this strikes me as a natural consequence of misunderstanding the origin of salvation; and if only they had known the true origin, they would not have characterized holiness or obedience as necessary for salvation, as the Catholics do, but instead would have understood it as the natural consequence of salvation instead.

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

If we are chosen by Christ, and not the other way around, then it follows that we are also chosen (ordained) for the purpose of “bringing forth fruit” to God, and fruit that “should remain.” What work of man can “remain” if it is not the work of God? Nothing that man does can last, and “all our righteousness are as filthy rags.” Thus, we must conclude that it is God who “works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure,” as the scripture testifies.

This is an extremely different world view, and properly understood, removes self-righteousness and the Roman error completely from the equation.


41 posted on 07/12/2013 3:07:27 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: rusty schucklefurd

I left an SBC church over the issue of Calvinism. I asked if we could sing, “Jesus loves you, this I know!” or needed to sing, “Jesus loves some, are you one?”. I couldn’t get an answer, so I left.

http://evangelicalarminians.org/


50 posted on 07/12/2013 4:30:00 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

Right and bless you for doing just what Christ commanded we all do.


99 posted on 07/14/2013 10:53:00 PM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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