Posted on 05/12/2013 5:55:26 PM PDT by narses
Oh, I see GRACE not The Law.
I’d be wary of lightly dismissing Gods Laws. And loosely interpreting verses to support your beliefs. God is sovereign. He makes the rules. Do what you will.
You only see what you want to see.
That is simply not true, as in fact, nowhere is a NT church shown specifically meeting on the 7th day, nor is the 4th command ever reiterated with the other 9 are, while many times the disciples are shown meeting on the 1st day - incldg. with the Lord. See post 26
I see Grace, don’t know what you see.
Christ said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church, which has stood for over 2,000 years.
Do what you will.
I do what Christ commanded. You should try it. Eat His Body. Drink His Blood. Get eternal life. Found only one place - His Church.
Other church’s don’t have communion? Are you for real?
Well.......this is interesting. What day was the Lord's Day? Did He ever say...........?
[Matthew 12:8]For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
He sure wasn't talking about Sunday here....was He?
Now.....what day was the resurrection? Let's look at the Greek:
[Luke 24:1] Τῇ the (dat) δὲ But also μιᾷ one (dat) τῶν the (gen) σαββάτων sabbaths (gen) , ὄρθρου dawn (gen) { βαθέος deep ([Adj] gen) , ἦλθον I-COME-ed, they-COME-ed ἐπὶ upon/over (+acc,+gen,+dat) τὸ the (nom|acc) μνῆμα tomb (nom|acc|voc) ♦ βαθέως ???; deep ([Adj] gen) ἐπὶ upon/over (+acc,+gen,+dat) τὸ the (nom|acc) μνῆμα tomb (nom|acc|voc) ἦλθον I-COME-ed, they-COME-ed } , φέρουσαι while BRING-ing (nom|voc) ἃ who/whom/which (nom|acc) ἡτοίμασαν they-READY-ed ἀρώματα aromatics (nom|acc|voc) , { καί and/also τινες some/any (nom) σὺν together with/including (+dat) αὐταῖς them/same (dat)
Here is the literal translation from Young's:
[Luke 24:1]And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain [others] with them,
When did they arrive at an empty tomb? On the First of the Sabbaths (plural). What does this mean?
Seven sabbaths were to be counted from the Feast of First-fruits or Passover. Consequently, these came to be known as "First Sabbath," "Second Sabbath" etc., down to the seventh. And according to Julian Morgenstern, former President of Hebrew University, this practice continued in Galilee till the time of Christ or the Common Era. It is still observed by some groups in Palestine today. Thus, there was an annual date known as "First Sabbath," just after Passover. [page 230, The Life of Christ in Stereo]
Every single resurrection passage uses the Greek "μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων" to designate the day He arose from the tomb............Saturday the Sabbath, Nisan 30, A.D.
[Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2][John 20:1]..........check your lexicons and you'll see that the day of resurrection was on the "First of the Sabbaths" between Passover and Pentecost. There were seven...................[Leviticus 23:15-16].
“I’d be wary of lightly dismissing Gods Laws. And loosely interpreting verses to support your beliefs. God is sovereign. He makes the rules. Do what you will.”
Romans 14 is the word of God. Same for every other verse which tells us that we are not justified by the law, but by grace.
Well at least we have found common ground. The law does not justify us. That is not its job! The law points out sin. That’s all. It cannot save. It can only condemn. Grace saves. The Blood of Christ saves. But it is the law which tells me what a miserable sinner I am and how much I need Jesus. Otherwise I might feel pretty good about myself or my church or my puny efforts to be good.
Resurrection on Sunday!
Pentecost on Sunday when the HOLY SPIRIT came down and filled the CHURCH.
“Well at least we have found common ground. The law does not justify us. That is not its job! The law points out sin. That’s all. It cannot save. It can only condemn. Grace saves. The Blood of Christ saves. But it is the law which tells me what a miserable sinner I am and how much I need Jesus. Otherwise I might feel pretty good about myself or my church or my puny efforts to be good.”
We agree after all!
There are two times where scripture says that they “came together” on the first day, and both of those times were at the end of the sabbath, in the evening, for Havdalah. One of those two times, it was really “the first of the weeks,” meaning the beginning of the weeks of pentecost.
Paul did tell his followers to come together on the first day of the week, but it was regarding money for Jerusalem.
Other churches don't believe "This is my Body" means "This IS my Body" It is a cookie to them. Not the actual Body of Christ. Is = Is. Is does not mean 'represents'
Martin Luther put it pretty clearly:
Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians:not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present.
Surely, it is not credible, nor possible, since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only; or the body of Christ is not there, especially it being of great importance, that men should not be deceived. Certainly, in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them, had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present: but they are all of them unanimous.” –Luther’s Collected Works, Wittenburg Edition, no. 7 p, 391
Thank you for that daniel1212! It’s obvious they do not understand the New Covenant.
The 7-day week was introduced in Rome (where ides, nones, and calends were the vogue) in the first century A.D. by Persian astrology fanatics, not by Christians or Jews. The idea was that there would be a day for the five known planets, plus the sun and the moon, making seven; this was an ancient West Asian idea. However, when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman empire in the time of Constantine (c. 325 A.D.), the familiar Hebrew-Christian week of 7 days, beginning on Sunday, became conflated with the pagan week and took its place in the Julian calendar.
Thereafter, it seemed to Christians that the week Rome now observed was seamless with the 7-day week of the Bible -- even though its pagan roots were obvious in the names of the days: Saturn's day, Sun's day, Moon's day. The other days take their equally pagan names in English from a detour into Norse mythology: Tiw's day, Woden's day, Thor's day, and Fria's day."
So God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it, well before He wrote it in stone with his own finger. This is from Genesis. Sanctified means ‘made holy’ God didn’t make it holy merely to change it later. God never did change it, man did. Breaking bread is not keeping the Sabbath day. ;)
Oh, whew! So we can lie, steal and cheat with impunity then!
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