Posted on 05/06/2013 5:09:03 PM PDT by markomalley
I generally like one question at a time, but this was so… bizzare that it needs more attention.
From a reader:
This weekend, Father was having a series of talks during his Masses which spanned about fifteen minutes, and so he was late for one at another Church.
The parish sister started the Mass with the full (including greeting) introductory rites and Liturgy of the Word.
Father arrived at the offertory and then Mass continued as normal.
This is a common, though not weekly, practice. [?!?]
1) Is it still Mass?
2) Does it satisfy the obligation of the faithful (and myself) to attend Sunday Mass?
3) Is Our Lord still rendered present in the Blessed Sacrament?
4) If so, does this mean priests can just walk around saying the words of consecration with the right intention and confect the Sacrament?
Just when you think it can’t get stranger. If this happens often, I would inform the diocesan bishop and/or the Congregation for Divine Worship in Rome.
1. It does not seem to be a Mass. Mass is the entirety of the ceremony.
Could we hack away and say, “If the priest simply forgot the sign of the cross at the beginning would it still be a Mass? If he forgot the sign of the cross AND the penitential rite, would it still be a Mass?” Sure, it would be. In the case above, however, it’s clear that what happened was not a Mass.
2. It would not fulfill anyone’s obligation (including the priest’s obligation to offer Mass – if there was a stipend accepted, or if this was a pro populo Mass). The faithful who attended this inadvertently would not be culpable for not fulfilling their obligation. Objectively however, this did not fulfill their obligation.
3. Yes, Our Lord is present in the Sacrament confected.
However.. and this is a big however….
The priest, however, is guilty of a major crime, a crime so bad that canon law uses the Latin word “nefas“, rarely encountered in the law (canon 927).
It is absolutely forbidden to consecrate one matter without the other or even both outside the Eucharistic celebration.
4. Possibly, though to do so would be an abuse so great that one one could call into question either Father’s sanity (were he totally insane, the sacrament would probably not be confected) or his real intention to do what the Church intends.
Reason #675663 for Summorum Pontificum.
What “series of talks” could be so important that it would make a priest late to a Mass he was putatively offering? Disgusting. Poor parishioners.
Men and women have different roles in God's economy. If you don't like it, you'll have to take it up with Him. But He isn't likely to change it to ameliorate feminist sensitivities.
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1st Timothy 2:12-14
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
OK, here’s my FWIW. When I was deployed to Uzbekistan 2003-04, the Catholic chaplain was called away to Bagram for several weeks as he was the HQ CENTCOM chief of chaplains. Before leaving Father consecrated enough hosts for Holy Communion & left me in charge.
Each Sunday he was gone I conducted a service which consisted of the readings & Gospel, and included about twenty minutes of my own thoughts about the Scripture readings which I had prepared the night before. Then I distributed Communion, and with a few additional words wished everyone a productive & safe week. Soldiers picked up their rifles & shook my hand on the way out of the chapel tent.
It was all I could do for my fellow Catholics or anyone else who cared to attend.
~facepalm~
I wonder where this is...
Are you female?
The Bible does not say that the pastor must be a seminary graduate. Only that he must be a “he”.
I don’t know about the Greek or Latin, but he in English a few years ago was a pronoun that could mean “he” or “she”.
“She” always meant a female, but “He” meant the gender was not specified and could be either.
The language police were attempting to change that over the last few years. Don’t know if they succeeded.
Regardless of your sex, I doubt your chaplain had the authority to let you preach. It’s a seductive temptation, but you should have refused.
Thank God (and my bishop) for our parish priests.
tHANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE.!
the consecration of hosts is done by a priest. Many nuns go to the hospitals to give communion to sick people.
You fulfilled the role of extraordinary Eucharistic minister quite admirably.
Thank you for everything you did.
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He did not have the faculties to offer Mass or consecrate the Eucharist, and he did not act as if he did.
He kept the Sacrament safe, and communicated it to the faithful in a dignified and worthy manner - in extreme circumstances no less.
In the article above, the miscreants in charge are pretending to offer the Mass.
You were not defrauding your fellow Catholics.
What the miscreants are doing is fraudulent.
Yes, I am male & don’t know what that question should even come up. And please quote canon law by which I should have refused my priest’s request to minister in his absence. I have been commissioned as a lector and as a eucharistic minister since 1975, for what it is worth.
If you’re suggesting I shouldn’t have delivered a Sunday homily, again tell me why not. Fact is, I was asked by the soldiers to do so, as I was 55 at the time if that makes any difference.
Sir,
Let me encourage you to read your Bible.
It’s clear that the Lord wants men to occupy the ministerial roles in His church.
It is also clear that a seminary degree is not necessary, either, since most of the apostles were just fishermen. The Lord Himself was not a seminary graduate, but a carpenter.
Your role as acting minister, as far as I can tell, is Biblical.
The woman acting as such is not.
Thank you for your kind words. At the time, in Uzbekistan, I felt blessed to preach to my fellow soldiers in my humble way from the weekly readings of the Word of God.
I also had the pleasure of seeing two of our local interpreters, two Muslim Uzbek women, heading to the chapel tent for Christian worship. They later informed me by email that they had become Christians. Our U.S. camp was there for only four years 2001-2005. What a blessing to know that our Christian presence had such good effect.
Were you deputed as an acolyte?
and included about twenty minutes of my own thoughts about the Scripture readings which I had prepared the night before.
You didn't call that a homily, did you?
A Eucharistic Minister is a validly ordained Priest, only.
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