Posted on 05/05/2013 10:16:01 AM PDT by NYer
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
I read those...Did you ever read those...They both have red letters and one has got Verily, two times...You don't want to miss out on the Verily(s),that's the important stuff...
If you've never read them, now's your chance...And you know what??? They say the same thing in Greek and PigLatin...
First one says that if you believe in Jesus, you won't perish and you HAVE everlasting life...Right now...If you don't believe that, why not???
Second one says that you hear His words and believe on God, you HAVE eternal life, right now; and you WILL NOT come into condemnation...And it says you ARE passed from death to life, right now...
That's the recipe for the church...Don't believe that, eh???
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
And on a side note, what does “perish” mean? Let’s see:
According to webster: to become destroyed or ruined - cease to exist
The good news is that is what the bible says all over the place about those who do not receive the free gift of “eternal life”. It also matches the character of God.
One would think that verse alone would steer Catholics away from any false notion that a single apostle or any person could become a pope...That's another one of the many verses of scripture they won't touch with a ten foot pole...
Indeed...
Formal training in the bible has nothing to do with being a Christian...Most of the formal training for these crossovers consists of training about the bible, not the bible itself...
The reason hi-fi’s were invented is to listen to music with high fidelity. However, us audiophiles eventually evolved into something else. We started focusing on the hi-fi rather than the music. And I compare audiophiles to music lovers thusly (though one can be both):
Music lovers listen to the music. Audiophiles listen to the hi-fi reporoduce the music.
Same is true with some regarding the bible. They practically worship it for all of its wisdom and are very proud of their understanding of many of its subtle meanings, yet they miss the whole point of the book and have not accepted its core message.
The bible is a tool to help one understand God and His Good News in the same way a hi-fi is a tool. We need to use it for the purpose for which it was created and not focus on it and its innter workings.
And they spend no time in reading and learning what God is saying...
And yes, there are countless bible students striving to become scholars who focus their education on the bible, not about the bible...And thank God for those Christians...
One can clearly see the difference on these FR threads...
There is a guy on a liberal forum I go to that is apparently in some sort of religious study’s class in college now. He keeps posting the latest thing he has heard that “debunks” the bible as “proof” that it is all nonsense.
He has no clue that he is bringing up arguments that are decades or even centuries old and Christian bible scholars have clearly debunked
One of the more interesting areas of study here is the guys that say many of the stories of the bible actually come from other cultures and predate the bible. That really does not concern me since we all know that there were many people on the planet that the bible is silent about. How was God dealing with those cultures? What of what they wrote down was from their experiences with God? We don’t know. The bible doesn’t discuss every single thing that happened in every single culture on the planet. It discusses what God, in His infinite wisdom, chooses for subsequent generations to know. We get snippets of those other things to be sure. For all we know, it was God working through man to produce the men that eventually put His word to pen.
The proof of this is the geniologies in Genesis. Various bible characters had a particular son at a particular age and had “other sons and daughters”. Well, what ever happened to them? And were “other sons and daughters” not more numberous than the single one called out by name?
The bible says what it needs to say as a means to an end. It doesn’t cover every single aspect of every person’s life in every culture. It covers what needs to be covered to bring us, individually, to that end.
There’s no such thing as a baptism of desire or the other one. It does not exist in the scripture. It is also quite silly, since it basically means that someone is saved by having faith in the work of baptism. So basically you hold to my position, except mine puts the saving faith on Christ and not the work. This is the most logical position, since we know the Thief and Cornelius were thinking on Christ and not baptism. They werent even taught the latter at the time. You should study the bible instead of farting in my direction.
John 6:27 Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life,* which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal.”l 28So they said to him, “What can we do to accomplish the works of God?” 29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.” 30So they said to him, “What sign can you do, that we may see and believe in you? What can you do?m 31* Our ancestors ate manna in the desert, as it is written:n
‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”
32So Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.o 33For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34p So they said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”
35* Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.q
36But I told you that although you have seen [me], you do not believe.r 37Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, 38because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.s 39And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it [on] the last day.t 40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him [on] the last day.”u
41The Jews murmured about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven,” 42and they said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph? Do we not know his father and mother? Then how can he say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”v
43Jesus answered and said to them, “Stop murmuring* among yourselves.w
44No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day.
45It is written in the prophets:
‘They shall all be taught by God.’
Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me.
x 46Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father.y
47Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
48I am the bread of life.
49Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;z
50this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.
51I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”a
52The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?”
53Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Izzy I will see your veril's and raise you two "Amens." Do YOU eat Jesus? If you don't you don't have life in you.
The key to the verses you quoted is to understand if Jesus was speaking figuratively or literally about bread and food. It is clear from the context of the surrounding verses that Jesus was speaking figuratively of spiritual food. Jesus just supplied the crowd with physical bread, but many didn’t have a true belief in Him. They only followed him because He was a miracle worker and not because they were truly devoted to Him as the Son of God.
This is another example of Jesus using a parable or figurative language to express a deeper meaning. Eating or consuming His flesh represents a total trust and belief in Him.
That is why the entire Gospel must be harmonized. Taken in isolation the Gospel of John can be interpreted in several ways, but then the Institution of the Eucharist is addressed in the other Gospels and in the context of the Old Testament covenants, the meaning becomes clear. The Jews too had great difficulty with believing it.
Peace be with you
Exactly...We got everything we need, in the scriptures...
In the Synoptics at the Last supper discourse Jesus uses the word "Estin" when He says that this "is" His body. Can you show me a single instance of the word being used to mean figurative, or "represents?
Unless you are Bill Clinton is does mean is.
Have you been hungry lately, or thirsty??? Sure you have...So what's the deal??? Either Jesus was lying or you don't understand what he is saying...If you can't figure this one out, you certainly can't get the next one...
Izzy I will see your veril's and raise you two "Amens." Do YOU eat Jesus? If you don't you don't have life in you
Did anyone in the scriptures eat Jesus' flesh??? Of course not...According to you guys, Jesus turned his flesh into bread and his blood into wine...Did anyone in the scriptures turn Jesus flesh and blood into bread and wine??? Nope...Any where in scripture where Jesus told anyone to turn His flesh and blood into bread and wine??? Of course not...Any where in scripture where Jesus told anyone how to turn Jesus' body into flesh??? Of course not...
Now since you DO get hungy when Jesus said you wouldn't, you think maybe you're jumping to some giant conclusions here about eating Jesus' flesh being literal???
And what did Peter say??? Did he say that Jesus had the flesh of eternal life??? No he didn't...
Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
The words...The belief...And what about the words???
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
The spirit??? Which spirit does quickeneth???
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
The spirit that raises or quickens is the Holy Spirit...The verse, John 6:33 is about God...The flesh in the same verse is Jesus...It profits nothing...You can bake it, barbeque it, roast it on a stick or eat it raw...It profits nothing...
It's the words that are the key...They are spiritual and they are life...That's why the unbelievers left...They didn't get the spiritual meaning of the command to eat the flesh...
And Yes, I eat Jesus...And I eat the words of Jesus...
Jer 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
Nobody eats the literal flesh of Jesus...It's just a cracker with a good scam behind it...
Catholics who do the will of the Father will be saved. That's pretty clear. I'll try to DO my best.
Are Syro-Phoenicians DOGS?
Mark 7:24-33
Jesus got up and went away from there to the region of Tyre. And when He had entered a house, He wanted no one to know of it; yet He could not escape notice. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet.
Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter.
And He was saying to her, “Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”
But she answered and said to Him, “Yes, Lord, but even the dogs under the table feed on the children’s crumbs.”
And He said to her, “Because of this answer go; the demon has gone out of your daughter.”
And going back to her home, she found the child lying on the bed, the demon having left.
Oh?
Then why are we discussing it?
Oh?
Then why are we discussing it?
The Jews too had great difficulty with believing it.
Probably stumbled over the Eye of newt, and ear of Bat.
Absolutely not...It is impossible for anyone including any in your religion to harmonize the bible...
That's why your religion can't write a commentary on the bible...That's why you guys and your leaders have to avoid most of the scripture in conversations...That's why your religion took this verse out of the bible:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The bible must be divided to understand it...
And unfortunately, it's not just the Catholics...
The Catholics and Pentecostals teach that you can lose your salvation...Many Protestants claim that no one can lose their salvation...BOTH are correct positions...But you can't figure it out unless you rightly divide the scriptures...
The Protestants can and do show you the verses which conclusively say you have eternal security and will not lose your salvation...You guys won't touch those verses because you can't deal with them...
And the Pentecostals can and do show where people in the scriptures can lose their salvation...But they like the Catholics get tripped up and fumble the ball when the scriptures say 'yes, some can lose their salvation, but they can't get it back'...No one likes those verses either...
You and your religion couldn't be more wrong by claiming the scriptures must be harmonized...Ignorance of the scriptures is not a virtue...
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