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Washington Episcopal Bishop Denies Bodily Resurrection of Jesus
Virtue Online ^ | 3-31-13 | David W. Virtue

Posted on 04/03/2013 4:55:45 AM PDT by ReformationFan

Washington Episcopal Bishop Marianne Budde, writing in her blog on the subject of Resurrection, opined that if someone were to discover a tomb with Jesus' remains in it, the entire enterprise would not come crashing down.

VOL: Actually, Bishop it would. Our faith would be in vain and we would be of all men (and women) most miserable. St. Paul writes in I Cor. 15, "For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."

(Excerpt) Read more at virtueonline.org ...


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: bishop; budde; davidwvirtue; ecusa; episcopagan; episcopal; femalebishop; religiousleft; resurrection; washington
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To: ReformationFan
you know, we could say "oh, this is the ECUSA, forget about it", but we need to remember that the general public and the MSM then use the ECUSA as a chink to break into the Christian armor -- they've used them to push gay marriage in

We cannot sit back and say oh, they're ECUSA

41 posted on 04/03/2013 9:48:56 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: ReformationFan

What’s the point of her episcopate then?


42 posted on 04/03/2013 10:12:10 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Cronos
"We cannot sit back and say oh, they're ECUSA"

But we have to accept that absent any greater teaching authority her personal interpretation of Scripture is just as valid and anyone elses.

Peace be with you

43 posted on 04/03/2013 10:23:48 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: chesley

YUK...you’re right. I can just see when the Priests honors people who are married, and they stand up.....and KISS....ICK!!!


44 posted on 04/03/2013 11:55:23 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: ReformationFan

So, when did he stop being Christian?

Episcopagan is more like.

*Sorry Ellen. I really respected your dad and am very glad he never lived to see this.


45 posted on 04/03/2013 1:36:13 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: ReformationFan

Episcopalians aren’t Christians, although the often pretend to be to trick people. But it’s basically a cult.


46 posted on 04/03/2013 4:21:51 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: ReformationFan
Amen! I kinda think the Romans as well as the Jewish religious leaders of the time would have exhausted every avenue they could to disprove that Jesus was the Messiah. Even today, the common explanation is the exact same one those leaders gave back then:

When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day. (Matthew 28:12-15)

Of course, they leave out the part about how EVERY one of the Apostles (except John) died a martyrs' death rather than say that Jesus was not risen. Now, people WILL die for lie, but NO ONE will die for what they KNOW is a lie!

47 posted on 04/03/2013 11:31:12 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: OpusatFR
“Episcopagan” FreeRepublic should go ahead and add this word to their dictionary. I have a feeling it is a term that is not going to go away...ever.
48 posted on 04/04/2013 3:08:55 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: boatbums

Indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH289KVhx1U


49 posted on 04/04/2013 5:38:12 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Natural Law
But we have to accept that absent any greater teaching authority her personal interpretation of Scripture is just as valid and anyone elses.

I don't think we do. The reason is that Scripture more than adequately supports the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. All you have to do is read the four gospels as well as the epistles to know that Christians have ALWAYS believed this. In fact, Paul says if Christ is not risen, then we are still dead in our sins and are of all men most miserable. On those major tenets of our faith, there is no ambiguity in Scripture. Anyone who claims to disbelieve in the resurrection of Christ is NOT believing in the Christian faith. So, no, we do not have to accept such lies as equally valid to the truth. The truth remains the truth regardless if anyone accepts it.

50 posted on 04/04/2013 4:19:02 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
"All you have to do is read the four gospels as well as the epistles to know that Christians have ALWAYS believed this."

Now we get to the essence of the argument. The Gospels, particularly St. John, tell us that those who believe in Him will have eternal life. Assuming for argument sake that Bishop Budde believes in Jesus (albeit it with great error with respect to Catholic teaching) because her reason assures her she is right is she saved? If not, is it a matter of the degree of belief or a matter of the degree of error?

Peace be with you

51 posted on 04/04/2013 7:40:50 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
Now we get to the essence of the argument. The Gospels, particularly St. John, tell us that those who believe in Him will have eternal life. Assuming for argument sake that Bishop Budde believes in Jesus (albeit it with great error with respect to Catholic teaching) because her reason assures her she is right is she saved? If not, is it a matter of the degree of belief or a matter of the degree of error?

Without knowing a person's full belief on the doctrine, I don't think it is productive to argue hypotheticals. The article stated this bishop conjectured about, rather than denied the resurrection:

    Washington Episcopal Bishop Marianne Budde, writing in her blog on the subject of Resurrection, opined that if someone were to discover a tomb with Jesus' remains in it, the entire enterprise would not come crashing down.

"Believing on Jesus Christ" obviously means more than believing he existed. Neither you nor I can judge another's salvation since we cannot see their heart. Whether salvation depends on the "degree" of error or truth, I would say Scripture makes it quite clear that we are saved by the grace of God THROUGH faith and that not of ourselves. Can people be in error about certain aspects of the faith and still be saved? To a degree, yes, since those who were saved by faith in Christ had to learn about all that the faith entailed. The advantage new believers have is the indwelling Holy Spirit, who will lead us to the truth. No one who has the Spirit of God will deny Christ is God, that he arose from the dead or that he forever lives to make intercession for us. Thank God he doesn't insist on a spotless memorization and recitation of the Catechism before making us His own!

I bid you peace, as well.

52 posted on 04/04/2013 9:58:21 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
""Believing on Jesus Christ" is an interesting phrase. What is the etymology of the phrase and how does it differ from Believing "in" Jesus Christ? And what does it mean to believe? To simply acknowledge or accept as generally true, or as with the Catholic use of the word "credo" to trust completely our lives and souls?

Peace and Blessings

53 posted on 04/05/2013 11:01:35 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
""Believing on Jesus Christ" is an interesting phrase. What is the etymology of the phrase and how does it differ from Believing "in" Jesus Christ? And what does it mean to believe? To simply acknowledge or accept as generally true, or as with the Catholic use of the word "credo" to trust completely our lives and souls?

Have you not heard or used this "phrase" before? Here are a few Scriptural uses:

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John 9:35
Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

John 9:36
He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?

John 11:48
If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

John 17:20
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 19:4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Philippians 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 Timothy 1:16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Believing "in" and believing "on" seem to mean the same thing in Scripture. Since doing so is obviously more than simply acknowledging or generally accepting the story of Jesus of Nazareth is true, we can understand that genuine faith is trusting in Jesus to save us. To trust completely our lives and souls to him who died for us is another way of stating it. It means also that our faith is on and in him to deliver us and not in or on the works that we do. Is there a point to this discussion you want to make?

54 posted on 04/05/2013 3:07:39 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
"Believing "in" and believing "on" seem to mean the same thing in Scripture."

Of course I am familiar with the phrase, but I don't agree that they mean the same thing or that either in modern English necessarily mean what Scripture intended.

I hold that every word of Scripture is as precious as every crumb of the Eucharist and that the exact wording, in the original languages, was perfectly chosen. It was St. Jerome, in reference to his efforts of translating the books determined to be canon into the Vulgate Latin, who said, in so many words, that only the wording of the original language was inerrant and that every other translation and variant of usage injected error into the mind of the reader.

In modern English to believe in means belief that or belief of. (i.e.; do you believe in love at first sight). The phrase "to believe on" is very narrowly used in modern English outside of a theological context, and means to accept implicitly as an object of religious trust or obedience. It comes closest to the Latin "credo", used by the Church in its earliest Creeds, which means complete and total trust. Credo was originally derived from two other Latin words, cor, meaning heart, and do, from the verb meaning to give. In its original meaning, cor-do meant “I give my heart.” The best analogy I have come up with is related to a parachute. If you believe in parachutes you accept that they work. If you believe on a parachute you believe enough to strap one on and jump out of a perfectly good airplane.

However, the original Koine Greek did not use Credo, for those Gospel and NT verses you cited, it used pisteuo. St. John used nearly 100 times in a number of contexts. The only thing I can derive from this is that St. John's use of the word meant to believe on in spite of reasons and pressures to the contrary.

Does the Bishop Budde satisfy this level of belief? That depends on what your definition of Jesus is, doesn't it?

Peace be with you.

55 posted on 04/05/2013 4:13:00 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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