Pope Francis: a man of joy and humility, or harsh and unbending? (baffled Guardian UK asks)

The Guardian (UK) ^ | Friday 15 March 2013 | Sam Jones, Uki Goni and Jonathan Watts

[Mrs. Don-o]

[big snip]

Many Jesuits have been lukewarm at best ...the distrust stems from Francis's six years as Jesuit provincial of Argentina ...He was fiercely opposed to liberation theology.

"As a provincial, he was extremely strict and fairly conservative, which goes against the grain of the society," said [historian Michael] Walsh.

Fr. Jose Maria Sang, who recalls his former mentor as an earnest, well-prepared teacher with a strong spiritual orientation, also believes that those seeking to pigeonhole the new pope as conservative or progressive are missing the point.

"These terms are political, not religious," he said. "It is better to look at what Bergoglio has done since becoming a bishop – the concern he has shown for the poor and for street dwellers."

Francis... is a familiar figure in a giant slum in Buenos Aires where 45,000 people live in extreme poverty. For 15 years, Bergoglio rode the bus, and then walked in normal priest's robes through the dangerous neighbourhood to celebrate mass...

"I would say you'd find a photo of him in 60% of the homes in 21-24," said Father Juan Isasmendi... "He is a true man of God, he baptised so many children, he gave communion himself to thousands here....he was a father to so many people, a father to us priests."

Then-Cardnal Bergoglio on bus in Buenos Aires

Despite his missionary vigour, however – and a readiness to engage with the secular world– Francis remains an outspoken opponent of abortion, divorce, women's rights and euthanasia.

"A pregnant woman is not carrying a toothbrush in her womb, or a tumour," he once said. "Science shows us that the entire genetic code is present from conception. It's not therefore a religious issue, but scientifically based morality, because we are in the presence of a human being."

[Mrs. Don-o]

I usually avoid the Guardian, the most left-wing major-circulation rag in the UK, but this one sorta captured their category confusion: Pope Francis is conservative "but" he's close to the poor; he engages the secular world "but" he's spiritual; he's a missionary "but" "despite that" he's "an outspoken opponent of abortion, divorce, women's rights and euthanasia."

The more they look at this taxonomically-challenging specimen --- like an exotic life-form discovered on a different planet --- the more I like this guy Jorge Bergoglio.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Enjoy

[svcw]

I really thought the new Pope had promise then he said “islam and Christianity” worship the same God.

[Viennacon]

He doesn’t want women to be priests, so he opposes women’s rights? I assume this is what its talking about, as abortion is already mentioned. Since when is it a ‘right’ to be a priest? Our world is beyond crazy.

[RushIsMyTeddyBear]

Get into a cab of muslim taxi driver....start a convo on theology and ask them if we worship the same God. I have several times. It is a resounding NO by them.

[JCBreckenridge]

Ahh, two posts before the lies start.

[grimalkin]

It is. Everything is upside-down.

[detective]

“harsh and unbending”

The articles by media people who are without virtue or spirituality trying to judge the Holy Father is ridiculous. The only thing evident from this confused and almost incoherent article is that the author is totally ignorant of holiness and is trying pigeonhole the Pope into a place in his political order.

The term “harsh and unbending” would be comical if it wasn't so pathetic. “Harsh and unbending” means having strong moral values and standing by them.

[svcw]

What lie?
Pope said it.
If the reports from several news stories are incorrect then please provide the correct ones.

[MediaMole]

So, ...he’s opposed to things that go against Catholic teachings? That’s shocking.

...and he reaches out to the poor? Another shock in a Christian.

What’s next, he believes in God? That can’t be good.

[Hilda]

"These terms are political, not religious," he said.

BINGO.

[Ouchthatonehurt]

Ha! I do that too - discuss theology with Muslim cab drivers.
Usually a good spirited discussion and makes the ride pass quicker. I always joke that I give Christian cabbies a bigger tip.

[Campion]

Citation, please? Google “Pope Francis Muslims same God” and you get nothing like that as an actual quote.

[Ciexyz]

The Holy Father is not a bomb-throwing revolucionista. The Guardian weeps.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

“He was fiercely opposed to liberation theology.”

All the more reason to respect him.

[Arkansas Toothpick]

The secular media just cannot understand that a person can hold principled convictions about the poor and rejected along with the belief that government is not the answer to life’s problems and evils. To them, a secular, humanistic “compassion”, which is really about control and power, is the only way “help.”

[Mrs. Don-o]

St.John Damascene, an educated, devout 7th century Christian saint who observed Muslims at close hand all his life, astutely reported that the Koran is a mash-up of garbled and fragmentary notions from the Jewish Scriptures, the Christian Scriptures, and other sources. He observed Islam to be a heretical offshoot of Christianity.

Here's a list of figures common to the Muslim and Christian scriptures. In each case, like a photoshopped picture: the same figure, but with features missing, added, distorted.

God (Allah; same word used for God by Aramaic, Syriac and Arabic-speaking Christians and Mizrahi Jews, Alâhâ)
Aaron (Hārūn)
Abel (Hābīl)
Abraham (Ibrāhīm)
Adam (Ādam)
David (Dāwūd)
Elijah (Ilyās)
Gabriel (Jibrīl)
Isaac (Isḥāq)
Ishmael (Ismā‘īl)
Jacob (Ya‘qūb)
Jesus (‘Īsā)
John the Baptist (Yaḥyā)
Jonah (Yūnus)
Joseph (Yūsuf)
Mary (Maryam)
Miriam (Mūsā's sister)
Moses (Mūsā)
Noah (Nūḥ)
Satan or Devil (Shayṭān or Iblīs )
Solomon (Sulaymān)

Identity? No. But points of comparison. Maybe like a photoshopped picture of the same entity, yet comprehensively altered, warped. Nobody--- certainly not Pope Francis --- would say they were identical.

[svcw]

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-it-the-popes-private-opinion-that-muslims-worship-the-same-god

[Salvation]

So what are the three monotheistic religions?

Judaism
Islam (the true Islam)
Catholicism/Christianity

[BlueDragon]

Citation, please? Google “Pope Francis Muslims same God” and you get nothing like that as an actual quote.

Try:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=pope+muslims+same+god&oq=pope+muslims

There was just a FR thread from this last Monday with the title Christians, Muslims, and the "One God"

First few sentences;

Last week, Pope Francis received a collection of world religious leaders in his first ecumenical and interreligious event. His address to them contained diplomatic niceties and specific expressions of good will aimed at Orthodox, Protestants, Jews, and Muslims.

His remarks to the latter recognized that Muslims “worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon him in prayer.” In this he echoed the 1964 dogmatic constitution Lumen Gentium, which gave a nod to “the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.”

Now, both Lumen Gentium 16 and Pope Francis’s words have a pastoral rather than doctrinal purpose. Their aim is to build interreligious bridges by generously acknowledging whatever can be found to be true in other faiths—not to make precise pronouncements about their theology. That said, Lumen Gentium is an exercise of the ordinary Magisterium, and even casual statements from a pope (be it this one from Francis or similar ones made by his predecessors) shouldn’t be taken lightly.

[below] From http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/03/20/pope_francis:_discourse_to_representatives_of_the_churches,_ecclesia/en1-675184

I greet and thank cordially all of you, dear friends belonging to other religious traditions; firstly the Muslims, who worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon Him in prayer. I really appreciate your presence, and in it I see a tangible sign of the wish to grow in recipricol trust and in cooperation for the common good of humanity.