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Do we love those inclined to homosexuality enough to stop same-sex ‘marriage’?
Life Site News ^ | 3-26-13 | John-Henry Westen

Posted on 03/26/2013 8:02:07 PM PDT by ReformationFan

Let’s get one thing straight.

In this battle over same-sex ‘marriage’ it often sounds like those pushing the dismantling of traditional marriage have the upper hand in terms of love. ‘You are opposed to love!’; ‘How does the love between me and my partner affect you in your marriage?’; ‘Why can’t I be allowed to love whomever I choose?’

These are the tough arguments from ‘love’ facing those who are fighting to protect marriage from radical redefinition.

In truth, however, love is the principle reason to fight same-sex ‘marriage.’

You see, law is a teacher and enshrining same-sex ‘marriage’ in law would lead many people to believe that homosexual sexual relations are equal to those of heterosexual married couples. The difficulty, of course, is that while sexual acts between heterosexual married couples can be totally healthy and positive, the same can never be said of sexual acts between persons of the same sex, whether they happen within a relationship given the name “marriage” or not.

Our bodies were not designed for that behavior, and our anatomy itself gives that testimony. The negative mental and physical health consequences that flow from homosexual sex are many and the medical evidence pointing to them is readily available on LifeSiteNews.

(Excerpt) Read more at lifesitenews.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: aids; hell; homosexualagenda; johnhenrywesten; libertarians; love; marriage; pennjillette; psychology; queers; ssm
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Very good article.
1 posted on 03/26/2013 8:02:07 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

No, no, no. The American Pediatric Association said its fine, so its fine. Don’t you dare look at actual studies!


2 posted on 03/26/2013 8:04:14 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: ReformationFan

This is excellent. Thank you so much, for posting this. (You may list me as a Reformation Fan Fan.)


3 posted on 03/26/2013 8:15:49 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (O Lord, hear my voice; O Holy One, let my cry come to You.)
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To: ReformationFan

IMO, i don’t hate homosexuals per se. Some i have even called friend. What they choose to do in their lives or who they love is between them and god. They are choosing their own road and their own future. But....To try and say that what they have, what they want and what they contribute to society is as good as what a man and a woman in a loving relationship contribute is a lie. They don’t produce children, they don’t contribute health and spirituality and with a law passed on this they would be granted the right to adopt children ( as an adoptee that is disgusting to me) and our churches would be forced to perform weddings for them against our religion. not ok with me.


4 posted on 03/26/2013 8:18:42 PM PDT by annelizly
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To: ReformationFan

Same-sex “marriage” will make little practical difference in the lives of active homosexuals. The majority will not get “married,” and the rate of promiscuity will remain about the same for the “married” and unmarried.

What this really is about is constructing a massive new battering ram to drive Christians from the “public square,” shutting down as many church-related charities as possible, etc.

I have never seen a movement so hateful, except the abortion movement.


5 posted on 03/26/2013 8:20:14 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: ReformationFan

Homo issue is a diversion by the liberals to distract and divide. By forcing the GOP to go anti-Homo will give them most gay voters. Just like significant portion of women voters are against anti-abortion agenda.

Countries like Greece, Cyprus, Spain are in great difficulty with 15-25% unemployment, jump in homeless people, jump in suicide rates, etc. is because of going in debt to hand out free stuff. Those countries are no more pro-Homo than other European countries who are not in serious debt situation. Actually just the opposite. Netherlands, Germany, Scandinavia etc are more sympathetic to the gay issue.


6 posted on 03/26/2013 8:23:10 PM PDT by entropy12 (The republic is doomed cuz people have figured out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: ReformationFan

Hasn’t the left peddled the notion to normal men and women that “sex and love are two different things”?

I think it’s time we refer them back to their own argument. Among others.


7 posted on 03/26/2013 8:28:26 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: ReformationFan

There is not one mention of marriage in the US constitution.


8 posted on 03/26/2013 8:31:00 PM PDT by TheRhinelander
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To: entropy12

I think we ought to do the same thing to the left on issues we can easily win on as well.

Take economics. With all the taxes, fees, surcharges, restrictions and regulations and other things libtards want to push on people for all the necessary things they need to live their current lives, they’d be tacking on tens of thousands of dollars to the average persons’ bills. (ex Obamacare and all it’s done to raise taxes and costs of a whole array of things.) Libtards would counter that while that may be true not all of their ideas are in place at the same time so their impact is greatly less. We counter that the only reason for that is we’ve stopped them from implementing their plans and if we had not, the average person would be seriously worse off for little to no better ANYTHING in their lives. The only reason everyone’s bills are lower including liberals is we’ve stopped them from implementing their entire agendas.


9 posted on 03/26/2013 8:34:32 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: ReformationFan

Peopel over on yahoo . com keep insistign that ‘religious peopel shoudl keep their religious rules out of governemnt and stop preventign gay marriage” and it just boggles the mind that peopel can be that ignorant first of all it’s SECULAR law that has been preventign gay marriage- NOT religious law- secondly- thse same peopel screamign about keeping religious rules out of our laws are currently enjoying many many protections fro mthe law that ARE based on religious rules- For instance- If we remove ‘thou shalt not steal’ fro mthe law- then these peopel screaming about keeping religious rules out of law woudl be screaming abotu their neighbors stealign from them and not being punished- on and on it goes-

But aside from that the FACT is that governemnt secularism is responsible for the prevention of gay marriage simply because gays can not reproduce and hterefore can’t create new generations which our government can then tax- it’s a money issue folks- it is NOT a relgiious issue- never has been ever since govenrment took over the ‘duty’ of marriage allowances and so bastardized it as to make it unrecognizable practically- So to all those insisting that religion is to blame- pull yer headsw out of yer butts and learn the actual facts-


10 posted on 03/26/2013 8:42:10 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: entropy12

[[Homo issue is a diversion by the liberals to distract and divide. By forcing the GOP to go anti-Homo will give them most gay voters.]]

2% of the population? Honestly- the left can have them-


11 posted on 03/26/2013 8:43:23 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: ReformationFan

Sorry this is so long......Some things are not understood by most people.

The problem is that these people want to identify as “homosexual”. When they define themselves by a vile sexual act-—you should never expose children to them because of ideas that will be forced into the minds of children at an age where the idea separates morality from sex.

It destroys their normal sexual identity process to put ideas of anal sex in their heads-—All ideas in young childhood become foundational -they are embedded and you can’t disassociate that idea from your mind ever. That is why harem of boys in Afghanistan are excited about growing up and having their own harem of boys. It is learned behavior-—modeled. That is why homosexuals want in the Boy Scouts. In Germany the BS was founded by homosexuals so they could have orgies in the woods with boys. (led to the Hitler Youth (Homo Youth).

Promiscuity and Sadism results from young children being exposed to” sex ed in a group setting with strangers. It removes the dignity and intimacy and privacy necessary for healthy long term relationships. The sex act is designed to be by two people in an intimate, private place.

Why do you think that group sex is popular and there is such exhibitionism in the arts and no shame. There is no Good and Evil-—it is erased in the schools on purpose—to kill the concept of God and destroy Christianity so that society will collapse. Without Virtue—there is no Free Republic possible (known since Socrates). This has been the plan since Dewey (Fabian Socialist) control education to corrupt the minds of vulnerable kids to collapse culture.

Sex Ed and media normalizes group sex, any kind of sex—doesn’t matter—morality is removed and they glorify it -—make “pride” days to flip Good and evil and “kill God”.

What if someone was vomiting next to you, as you are eating beans. It would make you gag and from then on whenever you eat beans, you will always be reminded of vomit. (BF Skinner). All our curricula is laced with “operant conditioning” to force “group think” and trigger the proper emotions in children (they feel uncomfortable when “Capitalism” is talked about-—hatred when “conservative or Christian is mentioned). Emotions are manipulated to decide everything-—truth and good and evil. There is no Reason. (Marxism reduces man to their base instincts—they can’t control their base instincts (chaos)—and they can be “trained” like a dog in schools so they become ideologues-—can’t use logic.

You will never be able to look at beans in a normal way for the rest of your life. Sex is the same. Whatever you are exposed to—makes a serious impression that is permanent. That is why child abuse destroys children. It becomes impossible for them to “see” people in a wholesome way-—there worldview is warped and will always warp it. They can’t erase the experience because childhood experiences are foundational.

-—that is why Rousseau stated that innocence was essential so that children were educable. With sex introduced before puberty—children will not achieve academically (another reason Marxist want Sex Ed in schools-—dumb, sex-obsessed kids who can’t reason and run on “urges” with no restraints—and children will never develop a normal sexual identity. (Marcuse).


12 posted on 03/26/2013 8:47:36 PM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: annelizly

[[What they choose to do in their lives or who they love is between them and god.]]

That’s not entirely true=- what they do i between them, God, AND the rest of us due to the FACT that the majority of homosexualks lead VERY dangerous lives and have been a leading contributor to rising health care costs and tax payer funded research into ‘preventing’ a disease that they coudl prevent themselves just by beign moral- Not to mention the FACT that childrn of gay coupels overwhelingly end up with mental health issues and emotional problems and commit suicide far more than noraml kids do- so to say they don’t affect anyoen but themselves is simply untrue- and let’s also not forget that they also affected many blood transfusion recipients who contracted aids simpyl from gettign blood transfusins donated by gay folks- and hte spread of all manner of comunicable diseases by havign many partners both straight and gay-

The gay lifestyle is ANYTHING but harmless!


13 posted on 03/26/2013 8:48:25 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

agreed


14 posted on 03/26/2013 8:54:39 PM PDT by annelizly
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To: CottShop

If it is only 2% homo’s, why are we wasting time pontificating on the issue? Why are we taking the California court decision to SOCTUS? All it is doing is giving the issue more sympathy votes.

Also do not forget that 2% somo’s have parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, friends etc. That Ohio senator Rob Portman just turned pro-Homo rights because his son is gay.


15 posted on 03/26/2013 8:56:39 PM PDT by entropy12 (The republic is doomed cuz people have figured out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: entropy12

I couldn’t agree more. The left is trying to force the GOP to engage them on social issues to distract from the economy. We should not let them.

“Those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him.”
-Sun Tzu


16 posted on 03/26/2013 9:02:28 PM PDT by Corporate Democrat
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To: entropy12

[[If it is only 2% homo’s, why are we wasting time pontificating on the issue?]]

Because thta low percentage (not sure what hte actual percentage is, but it’s very low) are tryign to destroy the insitution of marriage, tryign to destroy parent’s right to keep their kids from beign force fed the gay agenda, tryign to force churches to disobey God on and on it goes- that small percentage has been given huge power thanks to a main stream media who is hell bent on turnign htis country into a Godless soddom and ghomorrah

The SCOTUS will mostl ikely refuse to hear hte issue- sendign it back to the state of cali- who will promptly overtunr the will of the people- even in californication the majority do NOT want gayb marriage, but hte minority are still over-ruling the people’s will


17 posted on 03/26/2013 9:13:22 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: entropy12

[[Also do not forget that 2% somo’s have parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, friends etc. That Ohio senator Rob Portman just turned pro-Homo rights because his son is gay.]]

That still only amounts to a very small percentage- I say let them have them- let the left court and bed them- let them self destruct together-


18 posted on 03/26/2013 9:16:28 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: ReformationFan

Do we love them enough to be honest and direct about our conversations and not be afraid of offending them and others supporting this monstrosity, this social, psychological, emotional and religious sickness?


19 posted on 03/26/2013 9:22:44 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: CottShop
Because thta low percentage (not sure what hte actual percentage is, but it’s very low) are tryign to destroy the insitution of marriage, tryign to destroy parent’s right to keep their kids from beign force fed the gay agenda,

I am not so sure. The gays have done nothing to stop me from having a traditional family. I indoctrinated my 2 kids early and both turned out perfectly normal high achieving kids. The gays have not affected my family one iota.

But of course unfortunate kids whose parents do not do their job can fall prey to the liberal onslaught. I will grant you that. But again my point is, by appearing to fight the gay agenda, we are giving it more publicity followed by sympathy from people themselves living a normal hetero life. It is best ignored. A fight becomes interesting to MSM only when there two sides fighting each other.

20 posted on 03/26/2013 9:35:36 PM PDT by entropy12 (The republic is doomed cuz people have figured out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: entropy12

[[The gays have done nothing to stop me from having a traditional family.]]

Have you seen the reports of the ‘sex education’ coming out of places liek California? Mass, Rhode Island etc? They are absolutely disgusting and they ARe shaping kids minds at younger and younger ages- and this is just the beginning- the gay population is desperately tryign to force God out of htis coutnry, and force their lifestyle INTO our lives without our consent

[[The gays have not affected my family one iota.]]

I’m not sure where youl ive, but it’s evidenctly i na still predominantly moral area- The same can not be said for a great many families whos kids are affected by force via the public school system and learnign curriculum

[[It is best ignored.]]

I wholeheartedly dissagree- To me that is akin to hte ggermans saying ‘it’s best we just ignore what hitler is doing because we don’t want ot bring his actions into public more-

[[A fight becomes interesting to MSM only when there two sides fighting each other.]]

A fight only becoems interestign to them when they see weakness o nthe right’s side, and perceive the left as winning their immoral fight- that is why our dear leader has been abvle to get away with all manner of unconstitutional rules because the right did NOT fight the left and simply let them get away with it- and just like is happenign in NY where Bllombergh has declared that ‘governemnt has the right to violate our rights’ Why isn’t the media hammerign him for such a dictatorial stand? opposition to abortion rights has slowly but surely won through the years by strongly fighting with ND signign into law the ‘heartbeat law’ and other states with rules overriding the supreme court’s decision- I just don’t agree that the best offense is no offense at all


21 posted on 03/26/2013 10:09:20 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: entropy12

>> It is best ignored.

It is best confronted.


22 posted on 03/26/2013 11:20:03 PM PDT by Gene Eric (The Palin Doctrine.)
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To: Gene Eric

I agree that it is best confronted. But what really bothers me is the homosexual network. Whenever I see article that does not slobber about gay rights, the first post is almost always by a gay supporter. Even in very conservative sites, the gay mafia comes out in force and often prevents any meaningful discussion. They are rude, crude, and overbearing. The damage they are doing cannot be calculated, and they scare me.


23 posted on 03/27/2013 12:03:07 AM PDT by Essie
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To: CottShop

We live near Seattle, arguably one of the most liberal areas.
My kids can not get over how liberal the professors are at Univ of Washington in Seattle.

The best thing I and my wife did was to do our job as parents and teach kids right from wrong.


24 posted on 03/27/2013 12:20:37 AM PDT by entropy12 (The republic is doomed cuz people have figured out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: CottShop

If you are comparing Nazi Germany’s gas chambers to the gay rights movement, it is apples and oranges. No one has died from the gay movement. Taking them to court in SCOTUS is giving them publicity they could never afford to muster.

Have’nt we learned anything from Akin & Mourdock?


25 posted on 03/27/2013 12:23:42 AM PDT by entropy12 (The republic is doomed cuz people have figured out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: Gene Eric

You mean like Akin & Mourdock confronted the reporters?
I guess some people never learn.


26 posted on 03/27/2013 12:24:45 AM PDT by entropy12 (The republic is doomed cuz people have figured out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: TheRhinelander
There is not one mention of marriage in the US constitution.

This is true but irrelevant as it establishes principles which the legality of homosexual marriage is determined.Interpreting the Constitution requires understanding the moral framework of its writers. And which reflects a basic Christian moral ideology, which, along with every known religion then, defines marriage as btwn opposite genders, and does not confuse civil rights with grossly immoral actions.

This ideology easily gives support for abolition, (1Cor. 7:21; Philemon) but not moral abomination.

Some argue that since the Constitution does not forbid gay marriage, or restricts it to straights, then it is unconstitution to outlaw it, but which rational would also sanctiom marriage btwn man and beast, or trees, etc.,and supposes the Founders subscribed to a modern immoral ideology, contrary to the evidence.

George Washington's response to a man who had convicted for attempting to commit sodomy was not to advise him to marry, or even to institute DOMA, butr to drum him out.

Now of course, even Googling "George Washington's response homosexual relations military" (w/out quotes) results in almost half the results alleging he was gay friendly.

27 posted on 03/27/2013 2:58:36 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: entropy12; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; ...
The gays have not affected my family one iota.

That is impossible. Perhaps not as regards moral compromise, as far as you can tell, but we are all affected by others actions or inactions to some degree, directly or indirectly, and ways the gays have or will affect you family include, 12 ways homosexual marriage and its foundational ideology destroys a nation.

1. increased dilution of moral standards, from revisionist, perverse interpretations of the Bible, to the Constitution, etc. while promoting immorality thus this lowering the standard of morality in general.

2. increasing defilement of conscience, selfishness, moral insensibility, hardening of heart and hindering conversions to Christ, and dishonoring the God who made us.

3. perverting the nature and viability of the family (attacking monogamy, etc.)

4. increased risk of indoctrination of descendants, or removal from the care of conservatives

5. increased risk of sexualization of offspring in education

6. increased risk of sexual assault

7. increasing restricted employment opportunities (conservative college in resume, etc.).

8. fostering a society in which hinders expression of free speech and capitalism by penalizing dissent on homosexuality (lose your job. etc.).

9. reduced viability of political candidates and the Republican party, and the future of America

10. nuking America as the supreme moral standard and reducing the viability of the military

11 . increased insurance costs and or taxes due to greatly increased incidence of infectious diseases and premature death

12. increasingly moving the country toward judgment, as the nation which promotes abomination is under condemnation and is headed for damnation.

That said, let us consider that whatever we do or fail to do affects others for good or for evil, thus may all walk in surrender the Lored Jesus, trusting Him to save us on His blood-expense and righteousness, and to Him be the glory.

28 posted on 03/27/2013 3:53:32 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: ReformationFan
Do we love those inclined to homosexuality enough to stop same-sex ‘marriage’?

LOT chose the well watered plain.




Genesis 13:13
Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Doonesbury Cartoon for Feb/08/2013

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
 

 
 
 
 

29 posted on 03/27/2013 4:42:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: entropy12
Just like significant portion of women voters are against anti-abortion agenda.

HUH?

The flip side is equally true:

Just like significant portion of women voters are against the ABORTION agenda.

30 posted on 03/27/2013 4:49:50 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212; Elsie
Thanks for the ping daniel.

"That said, let us consider that whatever we do or fail to do affects others for good or for evil, thus may all walk in surrender the Lored Jesus, trusting Him to save us on His blood-expense and righteousness, and to Him be the glory"

Wise words.No doubt the lack of these things has given evil an easier ride than it may have otherwise had.Still,He is able.

31 posted on 03/27/2013 5:27:34 AM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: entropy12; daniel1212
The gays have not affected my family one iota.

Well, if that's true (and I doubt it), you've been extremely lucky, or else maybe you live on an isolated desert island somewhere.

Because I have not been so lucky. Approached multiple times, and we're not talking about the "cool" gays of the propaganda. More like Edgar Allen Poe. Not kidding. My children also. In one case a technical assault, though it was resolved without legal action.

Then there's the Fortune 500 syndrome. These guys think they need to grovel under the latest fashions in human misconduct, because it will keep the corporation rich with friends in high places, which is important to corporate survival. As a result, I've been to the sensitivity training, and I've been rebuked by top corporate leadership for having the audacity to believe that sex was still a moral question. Believe me, when something like that happens to you, and you see your financial doom lurking just around the corner if you don't suck up to the right people, well, you just haven't lived. :)

To say nothing of the marriage pool. You want to look into your future a bit? Try looking at the Netherlands. Gay marriage since about 2000, and it is wiping out the institution. No one needs to get married, hetero, homo, or otherwise. Sexual nirvana. All the fun you want, and the STATE will take care if any children are involved. Which of course the Marxists love, because that. is. their. goal.

Anyway, got to go to work now. I wish what you said was true. I truly do. I think you need to question what it means to be "affected." Broaden that definition a bit, and you'll see why people like me and Daniel find it impossible to ignore the impacts to our families that stem from the normalization of evil.

And if we belong to God, how can we remain silent, especially as a mere political expediency? Then we would not only be affected ourselves, we coldly and passively stand by and watch as souls are destroyed, thus becoming participants with the sin itself, collaborators in evil, and that is too high a price to pay for anything, least of all some imagined electoral advantage.

Peace,

SR

32 posted on 03/27/2013 6:42:48 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: daniel1212
Great post ...

Maranatha ...

33 posted on 03/27/2013 6:46:44 AM PDT by dartuser (My firearm is not illegal ... its undocumented.)
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To: daniel1212; entropy12; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; xzins; ..
E12: The gays have not affected my family one iota.

As people who believe Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior lets look at this a little differently.

Why should children be discriminated against? The statistical evidence is overwhelming that children raised in a home with a Mother and Father have much better outcomes than those raised by homosexuals. If we truly want to protect the most innocent we have to say no to homosexual marriage.

Also, as Christians we need to recognize that homosexual mormalization is just a tactic in the greater war being waged on religion by those that think they are their own gods. Once the courts demand homosexual marriage be recognized it won't be long before the tax exemption will be eliminated for all churches that refuse to perform homosexual marriages. After this it won't be long before all religious institutions will be required to hire homosexuals and give all the benefits to their married partner that they give to heterosexuals. We see some of this already going on with obamacare and the requirement that abortion be provided for in the insurance. The end result is the destruction of churches as a moral lighthouse with absolute rules.

IOW, the acceptance of homosexual marriage is not an equality issue but rather a statement that we are not a religious people who believe God is sovereign.

34 posted on 03/27/2013 6:59:53 AM PDT by wmfights
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To: entropy12; CottShop
No one has died from the gay movement.

One word, AIDS.

I dare say that millions have died from the gay movement.
35 posted on 03/27/2013 7:03:31 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: entropy12; CottShop
"If you are comparing Nazi Germany’s gas chambers to the gay rights movement, it is apples and oranges."

Did not read anything about gas chambers but understood what the poster probably meant.

Hitler was not all about JUST gas chambers. The 20th Century totalitarians (Understand what that encompasses please) societies that arose, be it from the Bolsheviks and Marxism or National Socialist and Ayran master-hood, had one thing in common just like the homosexual community has, silence dissent and conquer traditional institutions/beliefs. Wake up, the US is becoming more totalitarian everyday; try saying something "anti"-PC and see how far you last.

Cultural Marxism is ruling the roost and ushering in "total control" of public thought whether you believe it or not. A brilliant strategy IMOHP because it combines the libertarian and the hardcore statist into one big convoluted circle jerk which they all enjoy together.
36 posted on 03/27/2013 7:15:14 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: ReformationFan

“How does the love between me and my partner affect you in your marriage?’”


It demeans the term of Marriage.

If we allowed people with an IQ of 50 to be called “Brilliant” then that term means very little.

If getting your GED were to entitle you to put Dr. in front of your name the term Doctor is rendered meaningless.

Marriage has been, for all recorded history been between a man and a women up until the cancer of the SSAD community, (Same Sex Attraction Disorder), started this equality in the face of depravity crap around the year 2000.

We unfortunately allowed the lying leftist wordsmiths to corrupt the word “Gay” and now it is meaningless. The reality is they are SSAD.

The unassailable facts are, we all have wants and desires that, if left unchecked, would be a detriment to society. Most of us push those wants and desires to the back of our minds while the SSAD community wants to flaunt their perversion and even force us to accept it and lower the moral bar on the term of Marriage.

At least the USSC has no power to make me accept this perversion and to stop the knot in my stomach when I see two deviants kissing. Well at least for now they are not into thought crimes.


37 posted on 03/27/2013 7:19:06 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: entropy12
The gays have not affected my family one iota.

Really, are your children in school? Do they watch TV?

The homosexual agenda even though they are only 2.5% of the population permeates everything, with their immorality.

Look at countries that have legalized homosexual "marriage", pastors are arrested and harassed for quoting the Bible. Teachers are forced to teach normalized homosexual with heterosexual.

Homosexual is like a fungus, it spreads if is not exposed or confronted.

38 posted on 03/27/2013 7:27:24 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: daniel1212

Nicely stated.


39 posted on 03/27/2013 7:27:56 AM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: entropy12
"Taking them to court in SCOTUS is giving them publicity they could never afford to muster."

Prop 8 passed and those who lost appealed. Who took who to court again? Are you saying Prop 8 supporters should of just quit after passage/acceptance by the Cal. Supreme Court (The second time) when opponents took the Federal route and "won" before the perverted 9th?
40 posted on 03/27/2013 7:31:06 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: Wurlitzer

I like calling it SSAD. I have always said that there is not such thing as homophobia. I am not the one who’s sick.


41 posted on 03/27/2013 7:34:18 AM PDT by mom of young patriots
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To: ReformationFan
We shouldn't hate homosexuals. Or liars. Or cheaters.

We shouldn't judge them, unless they are inside the church.

(I Cor 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”)

That is not to be taken as endorsing thier behavior either. We should not condon gay marrage.

What we should be doing is clearly preach God's redemption through His Son Jesus Christ to all.

A great book on the subject is Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert. An English Professor's Journey into Christian Faith

This is a deeply moving book that follows a radical feminist lesbian's journey to the Reformed corner of Christianity, ultimately to marry a Reformed pastor. In this book we can learn much how to deal with all sinners and come to a deeper understanding that it is God who saves.

42 posted on 03/27/2013 7:44:09 AM PDT by Gamecock ( If we distort the gospel, that distortion will influence and affect everything else that we believe)
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To: entropy12; SoConPubbie; wmfights
Also from the article beyond the excerpt posted above is this from a Canadian homosexual where same sex marriage is possible:

Gens Hellquist, one of the complainants, was the executive director of the Canadian Rainbow Health Coalition a leading homosexual activist group. He explained at length his concerns about the health status of homosexual men and women in Canada:

"We have one of the poorest health statuses in this country ... Health issues affecting queer Canadians include lower life expectancy than the average Canadian, suicide, higher rates of substance abuse, depression, inadequate access to care and HIV/AIDS."

"There are all kinds of health issues that are endemic to our community. We have higher rates of anal cancer in the gay male community, lesbians have higher rates of breast cancer ... the reality is there is (sic) more GLBT people in this country who die of suicide each year than die from AIDS, there are more who die early deaths from substance abuse than die of HIV/AIDS. ...

“Now that we can get married everyone assumes that we don't have any issues any more. A lot of the deaths that occur in our community are hidden, we don't see them. Those of us who are working on the front lines see them and I'm tired of watching my community die."

Homosexuality kills

43 posted on 03/27/2013 8:18:31 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: wmfights
I sent this article to my entire mailing list with the following note:

Dear Friends,

This is the truth in a time that is seeing our Supreme Court discuss same-sex marriage. Those who love the homosexual person are those who are out of love begging them to stop a behavior that their own health and death statistics say is killing them. Those who “hate” the homosexual are those telling them to go ahead with what they’re doing. It is not love to encourage an alcoholic to drink and to get behind a steering wheel and drive. That would be total lack of caring for that person. It is the so-called “open minded” people who are killing the homosexual, and it is the biblical folks who are showing love by trying to get them to change. Which is possible, because see the underlined below:

The Apostle Paul says in 1 Co 6:

Do not be deceived:10 Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers11 nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders12 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers13 will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were.14 But you were washed,15 you were sanctified,16 you were justified17 in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

In the article below especially see the section from a Canadian homosexual.

Faith

44 posted on 03/27/2013 8:22:55 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: wmfights
Once the courts demand homosexual marriage be recognized it won't be long before the tax exemption will be eliminated for all churches that refuse to perform homosexual marriages.

Or are outlawed from outreaching to or teaching children homosexuality is wrong, and from converting homosexuals to be straight.

The satanic goal is to all give obeisance to the false ideology that makes a mockery of the Creator who made man and women uniquely compatible and complimentary and only joined them together in marriage.

Daniel was required, "Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands? " (Daniel 3:15)

But we know Him who has the keys of Hell and Heaven

45 posted on 03/27/2013 8:50:15 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Springfield Reformer
And if we belong to God, how can we remain silent, especially as a mere political expediency?

And how can we love God and our neighbor if we do no seek to save that which lost (and a practice that likely will send them to an early grave and an eternal Hell), and live as the elect? May God be merciful to us in our shortcomings.

46 posted on 03/27/2013 8:52:37 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: wmfights
Hello wmfights,

C.S. Lewis wrote:

“There is no neutral ground in the Universe, every square inch, every split second, is claimed by God and counterclaimed by satan”.

When Roe vs Wade was passed it was because the majority of American people wanted it to be so or it would have never passed..... The very ‘sanctity of life’ was no more, this nation lost fully it's desire... to ‘protect’ our children......thus the homosexual community crashed thru what was once the “gatekeepers” of life......and other perverted individuals will fast be on the heels of what we are seeing now.....there are no “gates”.

This whole fiasco is simply the “results” playing out on stage...God ‘allows’ sin to run it's course once man defies, ignores, and fights against God's clear warnings.

47 posted on 03/27/2013 8:52:54 AM PDT by caww
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To: dartuser
Great post .

It was an impromptu post, to which others ar welcome to improve or expand.

48 posted on 03/27/2013 8:55:04 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: SoConPubbie

exactly- not just gay peopel have died from aids, but innocent peopel gettign unknowingly blood transfusions donated by gay people who’s aids went undete4cted have coitnracted the disease- and not to mention gay peopel having multiple multiple partners both straight and gay whos partners also have multiple partners and we’re talkign about a massive psread of the disease through society- Not to mention nurses, caretakers and doctors are all put at risk carign for these folks- Those folks claiming gay people ‘don’t hurt anyoen but themselves’ are either ignorant of the facts, or flat out lying tryign to cover up just how dangerous to EVERYONE the gay movement is-


49 posted on 03/27/2013 9:24:25 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: caww

[[When Roe vs Wade was passed it was because the majority of American people wanted it to be so or it would have never passed]]

When did the peopel have any say in it? It was decided by the supreme court (who legislated fro mthe bench when makign hte ruling)

You are right- sin is abotu to rapidly multiply like never before- This country is plagued with a NY mayor who declares ‘govetrnment has the right to violate your rights’ and hwo has declared hismelf above the cosntitution- we have a supreme court who will NOT protect America from a rogue govenrment any logner claiming ‘it’s not hteir job to protect Americans from ‘bad chocies’ (Despite a majority of hteir cases do just that) we have schools forcign kids be immersed in disgusting filthy sexual discussions and ‘school activites’ deicting the filthy vile sex acts- on and on it goes- and pretty soon anyoen hwo oppsoes such filth and immorality will be comnpeltely villiefied bt the press and possibly imprisoned- (just like htose who were imprisoned in places liek germany, russia, NK, china, cuba etc- It is becoming ilelgal to be moral


50 posted on 03/27/2013 9:32:19 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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