Posted on 02/11/2013 12:14:15 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
In certain passages of scripture it says that tithes are to be given to the Levites, and then the Levites were to give a tenth to the priests. In other scriptures is says to bring ye the tithe into the storehouse, that my house may be full.
Deuteronomy 26:12 says that every third year, that in addition to giving to the Levites, some of the tithe must go to widows, orphans, (the down-and-out), etc.
Now, if in modern times we give tithes to our local church that we attend and tithes are then used to pay for the pastors salary (them being the modern Levite equivalency), youth pastors salary, staff salary, utility bills, etc, why isn't a portion of this shared with widows, orphans, etc?
I mean, if cash is given to pastors through tithes, why doesn't cash go to widows every third year? With the scriptures saying to pay tithes unto Levites every year, and then every third year repeating this but adding in widows for example, that ties in widows with getting part of the tithe.
Some might say that widows, the down-and-out, etc, can receive cash assistance from the gov't. But if widows, orphans, the down-and-out, etc, can go to the gov't for help, why don't we send pastors there, too?
And if widows, orphans, the down-and-out, etc, can go to churches and get help at these church food banks, why don't those same churches send their pastors to the church food bank(s)?
If widows don't get a portion of the tithe every 3 years, then what do you do with the tithe for the pastor that 3rd year?
At my old church they had 10% of spending to outside ministries for the missions, poor, etc. (So even the church tithed).
At my current church it is 15%. The year-end request for folks to send in any pledged amounts and to bring the end-of-year budget shortfall up-to-date brought in MUCH more than had been pledged for the year. Half of that excess went into savings for a “long term” future Capital Projects campaign, and the other half went to outside groups in the local area serving the poor, etc.
I guess it depends on what you think is the important part of that scripture. If every ‘jot or tittle’ be followed or if it is the spirit of the concept. So many cultural things play into effect. Often just handing cash can be a detriment versus things like providing a home, food, clothing, etc. In our society, giving cash has tax challenges.
I see the spirit in that they didn’t want to have a situation where the priest (pastor, etc) takes all the tithes for himself but the purpose of at least a third goes to those in need. It is part of a symbol of the duty of the church.
Considering that most churches don't even manage to get 2-3% of the congregations' earnings (if they're lucky), and that many lead pastors work 60-80 hour weeks, I believe that the pastor's wife and children should count as down-and-out widows and orphans.
If we start from the position that it’s not really OUR money anyway,
and that for Christians, Jesus said
“Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.”
C.S. Lewis famously said, when a friend scolded him for handing out money to beggars, indicating that they would only drink it, “Well, if I kept it, that’s what I would do with it.”
Sorry, burden of proof is on you. If the tithe was required under the Old Testament, and God then further graced us with a Savior, then why should we give less now than was required then? Seems ungrateful to me.
It wasn't only the fatherless and the widow that was to be supported in the 3rd year.
If a XPian gives to United Way, I ask...why?
If a XPian gives to Susan G. Kommen, I ask...why?
If a XPian considers buying Girls Scout cookies a donation, I ask...why?
I’ve pointed this out on FR several years ago.
The priests had no land so they had to live on the offerings the people gave them. This was the tithe and it was not given every year.
The Christian today is to give “as God has prospered”.
“Not grudgingly but cheerful”, BUT “one who ignores his own family is worse than a thief and an infidel.”
I'm LDS and do believe in a tithe, but not to pay the pastor. Our Bishop or pastor serves as a volunteer and does not get paid. Our tithes and fast offerings go to our church and it is the Bishop who is responsible to help people in need with the available funds and supplies from the Bishop's storehouse.
Good luck - Now this thread will probably turn into a mormon bashing thread so rather than follow up I will go now and cling to my bible and shop for ammo online:)
***And the ‘Love of Money’ rears its ugly head****
This reminds me of a Charlie Russell painting of two cowboys robbing a fat preacher. The poem with it goes...
If money’s the root of all evil,
Your Reverence is going to weed.
It’s the duty of a Saint, not a sinner,
To shake out his clothes for the seed.
Funny poem but the actual quote is “The LOVE of money is the root of all evil”.
Someone years ago pointed out that most wars were over economics.
“one who ignores his own family”
But the crucial issue here is what does it mean to “ignore”? I would say that letting them literally starve of malnutrition would be “ignoring”. But not letting them have an expensive college education or a quality car as teenagers is not “ignoring” by any stretch.
The tithes and faith promises were put into a general fund, unless certain giving was for a special fund, ie.. building fund, missions, deacons fund, etc.
Out of the general fund the pastors salary was paid, along with other things, such as aforementioned.
Its also important to know the earlier titheS. Because ancient tithes weren't just limited to one 10% tithe. There was also a festival tithe and a poor tithe.
The first tithe was to maintain the Levites. The second tithe was for festivals, the Jewish holidays. THEN there was another tithe taken every 3 years for the poor and widows.
So "tithing" ran upwards of 23%.
But of course its important to note, at that time there also WERE NO TAXES.
Wow. You are all over the road today. And wrong on every point.
And - in case you didn’t know - the topic is tithing not marriage or the 10 commandments.
Try to keep up, mmm-kay?
If Christians gave as much to the church to take care of their souls as they do to their doctors and insurance company to take care of their bodies, there would be no shortage of money for the mission of Jesus to preach the Gospel all over the world.
Your body will decay in the ground, while your soul and your glorified body will live for eternity. The latter is a much better investment.
This government has taken over the task of supposedly caring for those in need.
This was and is accepted by most of the church in America as right and good, because like everything else, is absolved the individual to do charity and put it within the province of government to handle.
This too absolved the church in it’s responsibility, and many were happy that the funds saved by no longer needing to do James 1:27, could be spent on the gilded chairs, blue wigs and coffee shops in the atriums of newly finished mega church buildings.
I cannot say I am sorry for painting with such a broad brush - because this depraved culture that the lukewarm church has lost to Secular hedonists, are the fruits of what I charge.
The church is the complicit party in helping the government replace it’s role in doing charity and James 1:27, of which it was our individual responsibility within the congregation to provide. So much so that government has now replaced God in the religion of many in this nation in decline towards collapse.
As a matter of biblical record, tithing was done BEFORE the Law of God was handed to Moses (i.e.: Abraham and Melchizidek). And since John 1:1-3, 14 was cited - I bristle at the suggestion that tithing and all aspects of the Law of God are no longer valid. Clearly it was Jesus Himself who made all things and did all things in behalf of the Father. That would include writing the Commandments and even all the ordinances of which tithing was also part.
God loves a cheerful giver, and while mandated tithing does not encourage a cheerful giver, willingly offering the first of your labors to God, is not just a test of faith - but it often opens the gates to blessings one may never realize and puts their heart in the place they place their treasure.
Where in the New Testament are the purveyors of the Gospel paid money for their services?
Tithing was an Old Testament COMMANDMENT. It was not optional.
Read your Bible.
I read Matthew 5:17. I read the whole 5th chapter. Nothing there about tithing (A non-voluntary commandment). Nothing there about giving (voluntary) either.
Sorry, burden of proof is on you. If the tithe was required under the Old Testament....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry back at ya. The burden of proof is ON THE BIBLE. Specifically the New Testament.
I find it sad that so many Christians are not taught the fundamental basics of tithing verses voluntarily giving.
I blame greedy churches who guilt trip their members into tithing.
Well televangelists are in an entirely different category, and before the Law is totally non relevant to our conversation. But to answer your questions, so do, some don’t. For the record, widows and orphans would, in context, be any unmarried woman of age and any child without support.
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