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To: D-fendr

Let me see if I can come ‘round it a different way, then: Reformed Theology declares that God is in control of all things - including who he chooses salvation for. The Ephesians passage declares that those elected are given these tools - grace/faith by a means that is irresistible... and salvation is the result. This is indeed salvation by grace (bestowed from God) through faith (also bestowed by God).

If you want to say this means that salvation is by election (by derivation), then so be it - Ephesians 1:4-5 suggest strongly that the election to salvation occurred before the creation. I don’t see that this changes anything since it all comes from the Father... it’s still consistent.


7 posted on 02/07/2013 12:33:34 PM PST by alancarp (Obama will grab your guns and ship them to Mexican drug mobs.)
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To: alancarp

Thanks for your reply:

>>>If you want to say this means that salvation is by election (by derivation), then so be it..

I think it is obviously true for Calvinism.

For example, if I say a gunshot victim died due to loss of blood I am correct but incomplete in terms of cause. The real cause was the gunshot. Had the gunshot caused loss of blood or loss of oxygen or loss of brain function is irrelevant to the cause, these are conditional upon - not existing without - the gunshot.

This does not conform with non-Calvinist Christianity which teaches salvation by grace through faith.


11 posted on 02/07/2013 12:41:57 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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