Skip to comments.More Catholics Seek ‘De-Baptism’ Over Pope’s Gay Marriage Remarks
Posted on 01/02/2013 10:59:47 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Following Pope Benedict XVI's repeated messages denouncing same-sex marriage, more Dutch Catholics are seeking ways to leave the Catholic Church. And one website is helping people to "de-baptize" themselves.
According to Reuters, the website ontdopen.nl ("de-baptize.nl") has gained significant traffic this month after the pope took the time in his Christmas speech to the Vatican bureaucracy to condemn gay marriage.
"They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves," he said. "The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man's fundamental choice where he himself is concerned."
The speech comes after the pope addressed gay marriage in his peace day message earlier this month. He said, "There is a need to acknowledge and promote the natural structure of marriage as the union of a man and a woman in the face of attempts to make it juridically equivalent to radically different types of union.
"Such attempts actually harm and help to destabilize marriage, obscuring its specific nature and its indispensable role in society."
Early this year, the pontiff also said same-sex marriage threatens human dignity and the future of humanity itself.
Tom Roes set up the "de-baptism" website. He left the Catholic Church over the cover-up of sexual abuse in Catholic institutions. He told Reuters it's not possible to be "de-baptized," but said people can "unsubscribe or de-register themselves as Catholics" through his website. The website has a disclaimer stating that it is not responsible for any side effects of a life of sin such as diseases, natural disasters, or hell.
The Netherlands was the first country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage in 2001. In the liberal country, about 28 percent of the population is Catholic and 18 percent is Protestant while many are not religious.
Jeannine Marino, program specialist for evangelization & catechesis at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, told The Christian Post early this year that "de-baptism" is impossible "because we believe that baptism permanently seals the person to Christ and the Church."
"People can stop participating in the Church, but we believe the grace of the sacrament has marked them forever," Marino explained. "If the request to be 'de-baptized' is meant to have one's name removed from the baptismal records, this would not be allowed since the baptismal record is a record of historical facts."
He told Reuters it’s not possible to be “de-baptized,”
To his dubious credit, he remains theologically correct.
Bunch of drugged up homosexual nutballs over there ~
RE: To his dubious credit, he remains theologically correct.
So, once a Catholic, always a Catholic, even when you are now an atheist??
Good thing he did not graduate from an American high school. He might have to de-graduate as well.
the worship of God is not a populatiry contest. God doesn’t preside over a democracy. we serve HIM, not the other way around
Of course. Can you ever "unbirth" yourself?
>>The website has a disclaimer stating that it is not responsible for any side effects of a life of sin such as diseases, natural disasters, or hell.>>
Bunch of kooks. Anything for money.
IIRC, you profess to be some sort of Christian ... if so, and if you have been baptized in any of the 'normal' trinitarian Protestant communities, the Church would not presume to re-baptize you should you decide to join.
How many Dutch immigrants are muslim?
How many of them support same sex marriage?
P.T. Barnum was a genius.
You’re not getting the point — baptism is valid not only for Catholics but for all Christians who have been validly baptized.
Furthermore, should the homosexualist loon in the article come to his senses, repent, and return to God, we would not re-baptize him either. That’s what confession is for.
Pope responds: They can just go to Hell.
Theologically, I understand your point.
My question has more to do with COUNTING the number of adherents.
It looks like when we count adherents of certain denominations (Catholics or Protestant), we count them based on Baptisms even when many of those who were baptized ( at birth or as adults ) have turned against their faith and openly profess some other beliefs (or non-belief).
RE: Of course. Can you ever “unbirth” yourself?
Not sure what “birthing” has to do with “baptism”.
There is no such thing as de-baptism. Once a person is baptized — that is it.
“Pope responds: They can just go to Hell.”
I know you’re just trying to be funny, but the pope prays for lost sheep as should we all.
To prevent duplication, please do not alter the published headline, thx.
“... once a Catholic, always a Catholic, even when you are now an atheist?”
From my understanding, you can’t “un-do” a Baptism. However, a person can choose another faith (or become an atheist). Just like a person chooses to do sin... Baptism is a sacrament.. not a guarantee that a person won’t sin or go all kooky. In fact, Confirmation (another Sacrament) is when the person chooses to remain a Catholic.
Yeah, that’ll show God!
This is an article that reports on a Reuters article.
The article doesn’t mention how many people have attempted to become “un-baptized” (what ever that means). It only mentions that “more” are doing it (more than what?) and that traffic has increased at a website (which does not translate into an increase in “un-baptisms”).
File this article under “Attempting to Control Behavior by Making the False Impression that Everyone is doing it”
It's something that happens and cannot be undone.
I should be more careful with edgy religious humor this early in the New Year. I didn’t mean to offend anyone other than Dutch gay marriage supporters, but I knew as soon as I hit the Post button that I’d crossed the line. I hope he prays for me, too.
Of course Baptism cannot be undone.
Many things in a person’s life happens and cannot be undone as well.
Let’s say I was born in Venezuela. The circumstances of my birth CANNOT be undone. But I can undo my being Venezuelan by becoming the citizen of another country.
So, what about church membership? Is one considered Catholic or Anglican or Methodist, for life by virtue of Baptism (even when one no longer subscribes to the tenets of the faith?).
Don’t confuse cirumstance with ontology.
Don’t confuse circumstance with ontology.
If Ontology is the NATURE of ONE’s BEING OR EXISTENCE, are you saying that a person is BY NATURE, a Catholic because of Baptism and that he is by nature, a catholic until he dies regardless of what he believes in his heart?
This is the Truth. But sometimes the 'lost sheep' make it very hard to do so with any sincerity. Then I have to pray for myself.
All they have to do is commit a mortal sin and not go to confession. They will be separated.
"Until he dies" is irrelevant.
"Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated."Death does not remove the mark from the soul.
- Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1272
Your answer makes the most sense to me. Thanks.
One chooses to Excommunicate himself/herself from church by ACTIVELY, VEHEMENTLY and WITHOUT REPENTANCE, opposing and denying the teachings of the church.
Well, in this case, many of our catholic politicians who support abortion, gay marriage, etc. have already separated from the church.
But then, the question comes up — what if these people PUBLICLY oppose church teachings but go to mass anyway? Should they be given Holy Communion?
RE: Death does not remove the mark from the soul.
So, how does Baptism save the soul of the unrepentant unbeliever?
My message to those pretend catholics; Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your ways out.
Those are the ones the media counts as catholics when they vote for the likes of Zero.
The answer to that question is known to God alone. Neither you nor I can know what happens to the soul of the unrepentant unbeliever at the hour of death.
RE: . Neither you nor I can know what happens to the soul of the unrepentant unbeliever at the hour of death.
I think Scripture gives us an answer to this :
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16)
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.” (John 3:36)
“For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil” (John 3:17-19)
For those wanting to leave the Church:
See ya, hate t’be ya!
Well, if you want to play Bible Bingo, go try Revelation 3:20, and Luke 23:39-43. Salvation is available until we breath our last.
RE: Revelations 3:20
I am sure Jesus stands at the door of a person’s heart asking to come in.... However I am talking about a person who UP TO THE TIME HE/SHE DIES *REFUSES* to open that door.
I am not sure how his being Baptized as an infant will save him.
So they believe a website that says they can be de baptized? ROFLOL You can’t undo a baptism ever.
Tere is something wrong in a world where one would deny their faith for a pack of queers.
Certainly Homosexuals have a right to thir sickness, if they wish to play with each other that’s upto them , but for normal people to accept this to the point where they would deny thir savior for perverted sexual acts, there are a lot of people out here who need a mental examination.
Of course not, they should not receive. It’s all about sanctifying grace, the grace that comes through the sacraments. The Church teaches that to receive Holy Communion while in a knowing state of mortal sin, you commit yet another mortal sin - the one of sacrilege. This is why in my opinion, so many people avoid confession and keep going up to receive Holy Communion. They are receiving no grace from the sacrament if they are in a state of mortal sin. They feel nothing when they receive and I believe this contributes to such a high percentage of Catholics who do not believe in the Real Presence. More priests and bishops should refuse these people if they know what is going on. In the case of politicians who support and work to protect abortion this is a no-brainer.
Yea, but Elton John still contends Jesus was a queer.
Is that akin to once saved always saved?
You forget, we are talking about a bunch of perverts here. What makes you think they won’t pervert the religion too?
He believes in rebaptism, so for him debaptism would be entirely possible.
No, “One baptism for the forgiveness of sins”.
>Sounds like apostasy to me. Do apostates get to heaven?
Well, despite official statements that require interpretation, Rome treats such as members in life and in death.
“I stand with the great majority of American bishops and bishops around the world in saying this canon was never intended to be used this way.’’ — from the thread on Cardinal Donald Wuerl of the Washington archdiocese : Why I Won’t Deny Pelosi Communion (under whose jurisdiction Father Marcel Guarnizo, the priest who was suspiciously placed on administrative leave [removed from active ministry], after he denied Communion to a openly lesbian Buddhist Catholic woman: ostensibly not as a consequence of treatment of the lesbian). http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2247058/posts
Albany Bishop Howard Hubbard says it is “unfair and imprudent” to conclude that Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his girlfriend, Sandra Lee, shouldn’t receive Communion simply because they’re living together. — from the thread Bishop: None of your business (Hubbard rejects Catholic expert’s criticism of Gov. Cuomo) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2679260/posts
Another example is Ted Kennedy, who was given Masses in his own house at the same time he impenitently promoted abortion and homosexual rights. And then was honored with a glorious funeral, in which Pres, Obama gave a eulogy, contrary to canon law., and even offered a prayer for Teddy’s soul. (http://www.canonlaw.info/blogarch09.htm)
And which body of law also forbids as his moral views were effectively a withdrawal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff, (Canon Law # 751)
According to Canon 1184 §, unless they gave some signs of repentance before death, the following must be deprived of ecclesiastical funerals:
1/ notorious apostates, heretics, and schismatics;
2/ those who chose the cremation of their bodies for reasons contrary to Christian faith;
3/ other manifest sinners who cannot be granted ecclesiastical funerals without public scandal of the faithful. (http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur280.htm)
Kenedy’s RC funeral should have public scandal of the faithful, as there was not manifest signs of repentance before death
In a recent letter to the Pope which was read at his graveside, he insolently asserts he never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings of his church, and tried to be a faithful Catholic, etc.. The closest thing we get to any kind of contrition is the ambiguous, I know that I have been an imperfect human being, but with the help of my faith, I have tried to right my path, before he goes on to to defend his wonderful works, including universal health care. Not a word of remorse about supporting abortion or promoting homosexual rights, or indolence and a welfare state.
Nor did the pope censure him at all in his response, but the Holy Father cordially imparts his Apostolic Blessing as a pledge of wisdom, comfort and strength in the Lord. (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/08/29/ted-kennedy-to-pope-benedict-i-am-writing-with-deep-humility/)
As one in need of grace, i do not want to be hard on struggling believers, but such men as Kennedy were critically in error and unrepentant, and illustrates what Rome effectually conveys in part.
See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2901874/posts?page=68#68 and thread for more