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More Catholics Seek ‘De-Baptism’ Over Pope’s Gay Marriage Remarks
Christian Post ^ | 12-28-12 | By Audrey Barrick

Posted on 01/02/2013 10:59:47 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Following Pope Benedict XVI's repeated messages denouncing same-sex marriage, more Dutch Catholics are seeking ways to leave the Catholic Church. And one website is helping people to "de-baptize" themselves.

According to Reuters, the website ontdopen.nl ("de-baptize.nl") has gained significant traffic this month after the pope took the time in his Christmas speech to the Vatican bureaucracy to condemn gay marriage.

"They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves," he said. "The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man's fundamental choice where he himself is concerned."

The speech comes after the pope addressed gay marriage in his peace day message earlier this month. He said, "There is … a need to acknowledge and promote the natural structure of marriage as the union of a man and a woman in the face of attempts to make it juridically equivalent to radically different types of union.

"Such attempts actually harm and help to destabilize marriage, obscuring its specific nature and its indispensable role in society."

Early this year, the pontiff also said same-sex marriage threatens human dignity and the future of humanity itself.

Tom Roes set up the "de-baptism" website. He left the Catholic Church over the cover-up of sexual abuse in Catholic institutions. He told Reuters it's not possible to be "de-baptized," but said people can "unsubscribe or de-register themselves as Catholics" through his website. The website has a disclaimer stating that it is not responsible for any side effects of a life of sin such as diseases, natural disasters, or hell.

The Netherlands was the first country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage in 2001. In the liberal country, about 28 percent of the population is Catholic and 18 percent is Protestant while many are not religious.

Jeannine Marino, program specialist for evangelization & catechesis at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, told The Christian Post early this year that "de-baptism" is impossible "because we believe that baptism permanently seals the person to Christ and the Church."

"People can stop participating in the Church, but we believe the grace of the sacrament has marked them forever," Marino explained. "If the request to be 'de-baptized' is meant to have one's name removed from the baptismal records, this would not be allowed since the baptismal record is a record of historical facts."


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: altereddate; alteredtitle; anticatholic; baptism; catholics; celebratesin; gaymarriage; homosexuality; samesexmarriage; sexpositiveagenda
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1 posted on 01/02/2013 10:59:53 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

He told Reuters it’s not possible to be “de-baptized,”

.
To his dubious credit, he remains theologically correct.


2 posted on 01/02/2013 11:03:41 AM PST by 353FMG
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To: SeekAndFind

Bunch of drugged up homosexual nutballs over there ~


3 posted on 01/02/2013 11:04:10 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: 353FMG

RE: To his dubious credit, he remains theologically correct.

So, once a Catholic, always a Catholic, even when you are now an atheist??


4 posted on 01/02/2013 11:06:10 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind; Revolting cat!; wagglebee
Tom Roes set up the "de-baptism" website. He left the Catholic Church over the cover-up of sexual abuse in Catholic institutions.

Good thing he did not graduate from an American high school. He might have to de-graduate as well.

5 posted on 01/02/2013 11:08:02 AM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: SeekAndFind

the worship of God is not a populatiry contest. God doesn’t preside over a democracy. we serve HIM, not the other way around


6 posted on 01/02/2013 11:08:55 AM PST by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: SeekAndFind
So, once a Catholic, always a Catholic, even when you are now an atheist??

Of course. Can you ever "unbirth" yourself?

7 posted on 01/02/2013 11:10:09 AM PST by COBOL2Java (kak-is-toc-ra-cy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. See: GOP-e)
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To: SeekAndFind

>>The website has a disclaimer stating that it is not responsible for any side effects of a life of sin such as diseases, natural disasters, or hell.>>

Bunch of kooks. Anything for money.


8 posted on 01/02/2013 11:10:35 AM PST by kitkat
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To: SeekAndFind
The Church has always considered Baptism to be a once only, ever, Sacrament.

IIRC, you profess to be some sort of Christian ... if so, and if you have been baptized in any of the 'normal' trinitarian Protestant communities, the Church would not presume to re-baptize you should you decide to join.

9 posted on 01/02/2013 11:12:02 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: SeekAndFind
The Netherlands was the first country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage in 2001. In the liberal country, about 28 percent of the population is Catholic and 18 percent is Protestant while many are not religious.

How many Dutch immigrants are muslim?

How many of them support same sex marriage?

10 posted on 01/02/2013 11:12:13 AM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: kitkat
Bunch of kooks. Anything for money.

P.T. Barnum was a genius.

11 posted on 01/02/2013 11:12:14 AM PST by COBOL2Java (kak-is-toc-ra-cy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. See: GOP-e)
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To: SeekAndFind

You’re not getting the point — baptism is valid not only for Catholics but for all Christians who have been validly baptized.


12 posted on 01/02/2013 11:12:44 AM PST by 353FMG
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To: SeekAndFind

Furthermore, should the homosexualist loon in the article come to his senses, repent, and return to God, we would not re-baptize him either. That’s what confession is for.


13 posted on 01/02/2013 11:13:53 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Pope responds: They can just go to Hell.


14 posted on 01/02/2013 11:14:26 AM PST by AZLiberty (No tag today.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Theologically, I understand your point.

My question has more to do with COUNTING the number of adherents.

It looks like when we count adherents of certain denominations (Catholics or Protestant), we count them based on Baptisms even when many of those who were baptized ( at birth or as adults ) have turned against their faith and openly profess some other beliefs (or non-belief).


15 posted on 01/02/2013 11:21:15 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: COBOL2Java

RE: Of course. Can you ever “unbirth” yourself?

Not sure what “birthing” has to do with “baptism”.


16 posted on 01/02/2013 11:22:37 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

There is no such thing as de-baptism. Once a person is baptized — that is it.


17 posted on 01/02/2013 11:23:23 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: AZLiberty

“Pope responds: They can just go to Hell.”

I know you’re just trying to be funny, but the pope prays for lost sheep as should we all.


18 posted on 01/02/2013 11:25:15 AM PST by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: SeekAndFind

To prevent duplication, please do not alter the published headline, thx.


19 posted on 01/02/2013 11:25:43 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator
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To: SeekAndFind

“... once a Catholic, always a Catholic, even when you are now an atheist?”

From my understanding, you can’t “un-do” a Baptism. However, a person can choose another faith (or become an atheist). Just like a person chooses to do sin... Baptism is a sacrament.. not a guarantee that a person won’t sin or go all kooky. In fact, Confirmation (another Sacrament) is when the person chooses to remain a Catholic.


20 posted on 01/02/2013 11:38:03 AM PST by momtothree
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To: SeekAndFind

Yeah, that’ll show God!


21 posted on 01/02/2013 11:42:48 AM PST by servo1969
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To: SeekAndFind

This is an article that reports on a Reuters article.

The article doesn’t mention how many people have attempted to become “un-baptized” (what ever that means). It only mentions that “more” are doing it (more than what?) and that traffic has increased at a website (which does not translate into an increase in “un-baptisms”).

File this article under “Attempting to Control Behavior by Making the False Impression that Everyone is doing it”


22 posted on 01/02/2013 11:43:24 AM PST by kidd
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To: SeekAndFind
Not sure what “birthing” has to do with “baptism”.

It's something that happens and cannot be undone.

23 posted on 01/02/2013 11:46:13 AM PST by COBOL2Java (kak-is-toc-ra-cy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. See: GOP-e)
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To: Owl558

I should be more careful with edgy religious humor this early in the New Year. I didn’t mean to offend anyone other than Dutch gay marriage supporters, but I knew as soon as I hit the Post button that I’d crossed the line. I hope he prays for me, too.


24 posted on 01/02/2013 11:48:43 AM PST by AZLiberty (No tag today.)
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To: COBOL2Java

Of course Baptism cannot be undone.

Many things in a person’s life happens and cannot be undone as well.

Let’s say I was born in Venezuela. The circumstances of my birth CANNOT be undone. But I can undo my being Venezuelan by becoming the citizen of another country.

So, what about church membership? Is one considered Catholic or Anglican or Methodist, for life by virtue of Baptism (even when one no longer subscribes to the tenets of the faith?).


25 posted on 01/02/2013 11:51:14 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Sounds like apostasy to me. Do apostates get to heaven?
26 posted on 01/02/2013 11:53:33 AM PST by chesley (Vast deserts of political ignorance makes liberalism possible - James Lewis)
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To: SeekAndFind

Don’t confuse cirumstance with ontology.


27 posted on 01/02/2013 11:53:54 AM PST by COBOL2Java (kak-is-toc-ra-cy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. See: GOP-e)
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To: SeekAndFind

Don’t confuse circumstance with ontology.


28 posted on 01/02/2013 11:54:07 AM PST by COBOL2Java (kak-is-toc-ra-cy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. See: GOP-e)
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To: COBOL2Java

If Ontology is the NATURE of ONE’s BEING OR EXISTENCE, are you saying that a person is BY NATURE, a Catholic because of Baptism and that he is by nature, a catholic until he dies regardless of what he believes in his heart?


29 posted on 01/02/2013 11:56:29 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Owl558
but the pope prays for lost sheep as should we all.

This is the Truth. But sometimes the 'lost sheep' make it very hard to do so with any sincerity. Then I have to pray for myself.

30 posted on 01/02/2013 11:56:40 AM PST by chesley (Vast deserts of political ignorance makes liberalism possible - James Lewis)
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To: SeekAndFind

All they have to do is commit a mortal sin and not go to confession. They will be separated.


31 posted on 01/02/2013 12:03:09 PM PST by MomwithHope (Buy and read Ameritopia by Mark Levin!)
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To: SeekAndFind
If Ontology is the NATURE of ONE’s BEING OR EXISTENCE, are you saying that a person is BY NATURE, a Catholic because of Baptism and that he is by nature, a catholic until he dies regardless of what he believes in his heart?

"Until he dies" is irrelevant.

"Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated."
- Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1272
Death does not remove the mark from the soul.
32 posted on 01/02/2013 12:07:40 PM PST by COBOL2Java (kak-is-toc-ra-cy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. See: GOP-e)
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To: MomwithHope

Your answer makes the most sense to me. Thanks.

One chooses to Excommunicate himself/herself from church by ACTIVELY, VEHEMENTLY and WITHOUT REPENTANCE, opposing and denying the teachings of the church.

Well, in this case, many of our catholic politicians who support abortion, gay marriage, etc. have already separated from the church.

But then, the question comes up — what if these people PUBLICLY oppose church teachings but go to mass anyway? Should they be given Holy Communion?


33 posted on 01/02/2013 12:09:26 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: COBOL2Java

RE: Death does not remove the mark from the soul.

So, how does Baptism save the soul of the unrepentant unbeliever?


34 posted on 01/02/2013 12:11:22 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: 353FMG

My message to those pretend catholics; Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your ways out.


35 posted on 01/02/2013 12:12:36 PM PST by rcofdayton (.)
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To: SeekAndFind
even when many of those who were baptized ( at birth or as adults ) have turned against their faith and openly profess some other beliefs (or non-belief)

Those are the ones the media counts as catholics when they vote for the likes of Zero.

36 posted on 01/02/2013 12:13:06 PM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: SeekAndFind
So, how does Baptism save the soul of the unrepentant unbeliever?

The answer to that question is known to God alone. Neither you nor I can know what happens to the soul of the unrepentant unbeliever at the hour of death.

37 posted on 01/02/2013 12:15:02 PM PST by COBOL2Java (kak-is-toc-ra-cy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. See: GOP-e)
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To: COBOL2Java

RE: . Neither you nor I can know what happens to the soul of the unrepentant unbeliever at the hour of death.

I think Scripture gives us an answer to this :

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16)

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.” (John 3:36)

“For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil” (John 3:17-19)


38 posted on 01/02/2013 12:20:12 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

For those wanting to leave the Church:
See ya, hate t’be ya!
good riddance.


39 posted on 01/02/2013 12:20:42 PM PST by moodyskeptic (Counter counterculturist)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, if you want to play Bible Bingo, go try Revelation 3:20, and Luke 23:39-43. Salvation is available until we breath our last.

Gotta go.


40 posted on 01/02/2013 12:26:51 PM PST by COBOL2Java (kak-is-toc-ra-cy: Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. See: GOP-e)
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To: COBOL2Java

RE: Revelations 3:20

I am sure Jesus stands at the door of a person’s heart asking to come in.... However I am talking about a person who UP TO THE TIME HE/SHE DIES *REFUSES* to open that door.

I am not sure how his being Baptized as an infant will save him.


41 posted on 01/02/2013 12:30:54 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

So they believe a website that says they can be de baptized? ROFLOL You can’t undo a baptism ever.


42 posted on 01/02/2013 1:03:36 PM PST by chris_bdba
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To: SeekAndFind

Tere is something wrong in a world where one would deny their faith for a pack of queers.

Certainly Homosexuals have a right to thir sickness, if they wish to play with each other that’s upto them , but for normal people to accept this to the point where they would deny thir savior for perverted sexual acts, there are a lot of people out here who need a mental examination.


43 posted on 01/02/2013 1:14:15 PM PST by Venturer
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To: SeekAndFind

Of course not, they should not receive. It’s all about sanctifying grace, the grace that comes through the sacraments. The Church teaches that to receive Holy Communion while in a knowing state of mortal sin, you commit yet another mortal sin - the one of sacrilege. This is why in my opinion, so many people avoid confession and keep going up to receive Holy Communion. They are receiving no grace from the sacrament if they are in a state of mortal sin. They feel nothing when they receive and I believe this contributes to such a high percentage of Catholics who do not believe in the Real Presence. More priests and bishops should refuse these people if they know what is going on. In the case of politicians who support and work to protect abortion this is a no-brainer.


44 posted on 01/02/2013 1:35:31 PM PST by MomwithHope (Buy and read Ameritopia by Mark Levin!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Yea, but Elton John still contends Jesus was a queer.


45 posted on 01/02/2013 3:57:15 PM PST by johnd201 (johnd201)
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To: Salvation; SeekAndFind
>> There is no such thing as de-baptism. Once a person is baptized — that is it.<<

Is that akin to “once saved always saved”?

46 posted on 01/02/2013 4:34:13 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: SeekAndFind

You forget, we are talking about a bunch of perverts here. What makes you think they won’t pervert the religion too?


47 posted on 01/02/2013 5:13:31 PM PST by maxwellsmart_agent
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To: Salvation

He believes in rebaptism, so for him debaptism would be entirely possible.


48 posted on 01/02/2013 5:45:40 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: CynicalBear

No, “One baptism for the forgiveness of sins”.


49 posted on 01/02/2013 5:47:37 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: chesley; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; ...

>Sounds like apostasy to me. Do apostates get to heaven?

Well, despite official statements that require interpretation, Rome treats such as members in life and in death.

“I stand with the great majority of American bishops and bishops around the world in saying this canon was never intended to be used this way.’’ — from the thread on Cardinal Donald Wuerl of the Washington archdiocese : Why I Won’t Deny Pelosi Communion (under whose jurisdiction Father Marcel Guarnizo, the priest who was suspiciously placed on administrative leave [removed from active ministry], after he denied Communion to a openly lesbian “Buddhist Catholic” woman: ostensibly not as a consequence of treatment of the lesbian). http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2247058/posts

Albany Bishop Howard Hubbard says it is “unfair and imprudent” to conclude that Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his girlfriend, Sandra Lee, shouldn’t receive Communion simply because they’re living together. — from the thread Bishop: None of your business (Hubbard rejects Catholic expert’s criticism of Gov. Cuomo) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2679260/posts

Another example is Ted Kennedy, who was given Masses in his own house at the same time he impenitently promoted abortion and homosexual rights. And then was honored with a glorious funeral, in which Pres, Obama gave a eulogy, contrary to canon law., and even offered a prayer for Teddy’s soul. (http://www.canonlaw.info/blogarch09.htm)

And which body of law also forbids as his moral views were effectively a “withdrawal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff,” (Canon Law # 751)

According to Canon 1184 §, unless they gave some signs of repentance before death, the following must be deprived of ecclesiastical funerals:
1/ notorious apostates, heretics, and schismatics;
2/ those who chose the cremation of their bodies for reasons contrary to Christian faith;
3/ other manifest sinners who cannot be granted ecclesiastical funerals without public scandal of the faithful. (http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur280.htm)

Kenedy’s RC funeral should have public scandal of the faithful, as there was not manifest signs of repentance before death

In a recent letter to the Pope which was read at his graveside, he insolently asserts he “never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings” of his church, and tried to be a faithful Catholic, etc.. The closest thing we get to any kind of contrition is the ambiguous, “I know that I have been an imperfect human being, but with the help of my faith, I have tried to right my path,” before he goes on to to defend his wonderful works, including universal health care. Not a word of remorse about supporting abortion or promoting homosexual rights, or indolence and a welfare state.

Nor did the pope censure him at all in his response, but “the Holy Father cordially imparts his Apostolic Blessing as a pledge of wisdom, comfort and strength in the Lord.” (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/08/29/ted-kennedy-to-pope-benedict-i-am-writing-with-deep-humility/)

As one in need of grace, i do not want to be hard on struggling believers, but such men as Kennedy were critically in error and unrepentant, and illustrates what Rome effectually conveys in part.

See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2901874/posts?page=68#68 and thread for more


50 posted on 01/02/2013 7:33:10 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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