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Should Church Boards Be Able To Decide Which Pastor A Particular Church Gets To Vote On
12/17/2012 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 12/17/2012 7:10:15 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

A vacancy occurs within a church (as in the pastoral position), and let's say an interim pastor steps in for a certain amount of time until a replacement pastor is voted in.

Let's say 4-5/6 licensed/ordained ministers within that denomination apply for the open position and thus for a chance to preach before the church - and the church members who will later hear those ministers will pray about which one they desire to be their pastor and eventually vote one in.

Should the board get to toss any of those names from consideration, if those licensed/ordained ministers are in good standing with their denomination?

Is not the board, in effect, indirectly choosing which pastor the people will decide on to be their pastor if they can toss the names of those ministers (for example) they think that perhaps they can't or won't be able to control once that minister is voted in?

And where in the Bible is there one scripture where the church board is to have authority beyond advising the pastor, much less having the ability to have a vote during board meetings - one vote each with the pastor having one vote?


TOPICS: Activism; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Other Christian; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: corruption; deacons; elections; ministers; pastors; religion; vanity

1 posted on 12/17/2012 7:10:25 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: All

What say you?


2 posted on 12/17/2012 7:11:38 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

A very large local church our friends attend had an opening for a senior pastor.

They received over 200 applications.

If everyone one of those have a trial sermon, and was reviewed by the Congregation it would take over 4 years.

That’s the purpose of the Board, to weed through the applications...like HR screens applicants for the hiring manager.


3 posted on 12/17/2012 7:16:28 AM PST by mom4melody
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

A very large local church our friends attend had an opening for a senior pastor.

They received over 200 applications.

If everyone one of those have a trial sermon, and was reviewed by the Congregation it would take over 4 years.

That’s the purpose of the Board, to weed through the applications...like HR screens applicants for the hiring manager.


4 posted on 12/17/2012 7:16:34 AM PST by mom4melody
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Whats a church board? Whats a church vote?


5 posted on 12/17/2012 7:16:38 AM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: mom4melody; All

In a few instances that could occur.

But you avoided the question of whether or not boards should be able to toss applicants names when only a few apply.

And secondly, in the case of over 200 appplicants, you could have first come, first served, with the first 10 only put up for consideration.

And you avoided answering whether or not church voards should have power beyond advising. Please provide a scripture that gives them power beyond advising the pastor.


6 posted on 12/17/2012 7:21:34 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: mom4melody; All

In a few instances that could occur.

But you avoided the question of whether or not boards should be able to toss applicants names when only a few apply.

And secondly, in the case of over 200 appplicants, you could have first come, first served, with the first 10 only put up for consideration.

And you avoided answering whether or not church voards should have power beyond advising. Please provide a scripture that gives them power beyond advising the pastor.


7 posted on 12/17/2012 7:21:34 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

A Biblical form of Church government is needed; various Reformed denominations have church polity that is set up in documennts and includes Biblical proof texts.

For example: http://wpcus.org/WestminsterFormofPresbyterialChurchGovernment.htm


8 posted on 12/17/2012 7:21:41 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: svcw; All

That’s what I am wondering. I can’t find scriptures where church boards have equal power to the pastor when it comes to voting on things, much less any scripture where a deacon board has much power at all - period.


9 posted on 12/17/2012 7:23:29 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: svcw; All

That’s what I am wondering. I can’t find scriptures where church boards have equal power to the pastor when it comes to voting on things, much less any scripture where a deacon board has much power at all - period.


10 posted on 12/17/2012 7:23:29 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
"And where in the Bible is there one scripture where the church board is to have authority beyond advising the pastor is mentioned or authorized at all?"

There, I fixed it for you.

11 posted on 12/17/2012 7:23:55 AM PST by Sloth (Rather than a lesser Evil, I voted for Goode.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I would say the power is vested to them by the Congregation that elected them to the search committee.

That’s their job...to review the applications first and present those they feel are the best qualified and best match for the church.

Why would you use first come/ first served? If the job description is posted, isn’t there a cut-off date for applications? Any paperwork received before the cutoff should be considered, not just the first one or two in the IN box.

If the search is for a new pastor, why would they be advising the old one who is leaving?


12 posted on 12/17/2012 7:28:45 AM PST by mom4melody
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
And where in the Bible is there one scripture where the church board is to have authority beyond advising the pastor, much less having the ability to have a vote during board meetings - one vote each with the pastor having one vote?

Where in the Bible is there one Scripture where something like a church board is even mentioned?

13 posted on 12/17/2012 7:32:45 AM PST by Thane_Banquo ( Walker 2016)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I am Catholic. I don’t get a vote. I have to take whatever the Diocese sends me and I have to live with it until they decide to send someone else.

I have often felt that was not quite Kosher. LMAO Kosher,LOL.


14 posted on 12/17/2012 7:32:52 AM PST by Venturer
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To: mom4melody

As for the Board tossing applicants...sure they should.

If a certain criteria was not met..say number of years experience, education, etc...Not met? Tossed. If references are iffy...tossed. Issues with theology not matching the church...tossed.

Why waste the Boards or the congregations time on someone not suitable from the start?


15 posted on 12/17/2012 7:34:10 AM PST by mom4melody
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

In my home church, yes. It is run by the board of elders, not the pastor. We expect our pastor to be obedient to the elders and all to be obedient to Christ.

So yes, they should be able to toss out or weed out applicants they feel would not make a good fit. Endless friction between a pastor and the elders would be harmful.

It’s up to the church body to maintain a group of elders that are spiritually fit and willing to do their job.


16 posted on 12/17/2012 7:34:16 AM PST by Valpal1
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To: mom4melody

There is always the power of the purse.


17 posted on 12/17/2012 7:34:38 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

I don’t understand what you mean by power of the purse...


18 posted on 12/17/2012 7:38:24 AM PST by mom4melody
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To: mom4melody; All

You can’t have 200 applicants try out, nor can you let a church board/deacon board toss out names because they might toss out names of those ministers they think they cannot control. Just as there have been corrupt preachers, corrupt church boards/deacon boards also exist.

The only solution is to make it known that the position is open and allow at most the first 12 who have applied to each be able to preach one time before the church. That’s Wednesday, Sunday morning, Sunday night - for 4 weeks. The members should be praying, and then decide, with multiple votes possibly being necessary until one gets 50% plus. of the vote.

The only 12 who should be considered are those in good standing with the fellowship, and are either licensed or ordained to preach within that fellowship. If they meet that criteria, one of those 12 will most likely end up being the pastor. No tossing of names then by a board that might toss the names of those ministers they know they won’t be able to control.


19 posted on 12/17/2012 7:39:05 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: mom4melody; All

You can’t have 200 applicants try out, nor can you let a church board/deacon board toss out names because they might toss out names of those ministers they think they cannot control. Just as there have been corrupt preachers, corrupt church boards/deacon boards also exist.

The only solution is to make it known that the position is open and allow at most the first 12 who have applied to each be able to preach one time before the church. That’s Wednesday, Sunday morning, Sunday night - for 4 weeks. The members should be praying, and then decide, with multiple votes possibly being necessary until one gets 50% plus. of the vote.

The only 12 who should be considered are those in good standing with the fellowship, and are either licensed or ordained to preach within that fellowship. If they meet that criteria, one of those 12 will most likely end up being the pastor. No tossing of names then by a board that might toss the names of those ministers they know they won’t be able to control.


20 posted on 12/17/2012 7:39:05 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Suppose the first 12 are dillheads and #13 was the right one.

No, you review all the applications that arrived within the prescribed time limit.

Of course search boards can make mistakes, they are human. As much as I don’t want a Yes-man to the Board, I don’t want a dictator as pastor either.

Had one...never will again. The Church Board finally booted his behind...and it wouldn’t have happened if the search committee had done their job, checked his references, and not given in to an impatience congegation damanding a pastor NOW.


21 posted on 12/17/2012 7:46:13 AM PST by mom4melody
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Nowhere in scripture do we find a man heading a church called a pastor. Nowhere.

When the singular word “shepherd” or “pastor” is used in the New Testament, it always and only refers to the Lord Jesus Christ, never any other man. I Peter 5:4 for example, John 10:11, “I am the good shepherd.” And more. Only once in all scripture do we find the phrase, “My pastor....” Psalm 23.

The only time the noun pastor/shepherd is used in the New Testament, it is not singular, but plural. Ephesians 4:11

However, the verb form of the Greek word “poimen” is used as the charge, function, or responsibility of the elders (plural) or overseers (plural). E.g. I Peter 5:1,2 and others.


22 posted on 12/17/2012 7:52:53 AM PST by Arlis (.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

In my church (of about 150), the board is up for vote each year. By electing the person we are entrusting our major church desicisions to them. If we don’t think they can make those decisions, we don’t elect them. I’d imagine that the board would be open to suggestions on what pastor to look into. I would also assume that they are praying about the decision and will make a Godly decision pertaining to the search. If they don’t, there are bigger problems than electing a pastor.


23 posted on 12/17/2012 7:52:58 AM PST by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

As Simon Birch said, “what does this have to do with God?” There are much more important issues, such as the color of the carpet or whether to use oyster crackers or Panerra bread for communion. Leave it to Christians to take a simple administrative issue and elevate it to a crisis of faith.


24 posted on 12/17/2012 7:53:12 AM PST by Babba Gi
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

As Simon Birch said, “what does this have to do with God?” There are much more important issues, such as the color of the carpet or whether to use oyster crackers or Panerra bread for communion. Leave it to Christians to take a simple administrative issue and elevate it to a crisis of faith.


25 posted on 12/17/2012 7:53:30 AM PST by Babba Gi
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To: Valpal1

I am on a church board, not always a fan of that, however, the board should be closer to the congregation, and I will take a church board over a Jim Jones type minister. The board system has probably evolved from our type of government. I agree with your comments. You have seen the examples too of churches that could not root out a minister that had gone bad.


26 posted on 12/17/2012 7:55:48 AM PST by taterjay
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

It depends entirely on the rules of the particular denomination in which this happens.

There are no step-by-step instructions in the bible dictating how a church goes about picking a new pastor.

If that church/denomination has rules, then they should abide by them. If they don’t have rules, then they are in the unenviable position of flying by the seat of their pants.

The individual members get to vote with their feet or their pocketbooks. If they don’t like the decision, then they withhold their money or they go elsewhere. That generally gets their message across if enough band together in such ways to voice their displeasure.


27 posted on 12/17/2012 8:00:28 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Babba Gi

“Leave it to Christians to take a simple administrative issue and elevate it to a crisis of faith.”

The board hires the Pastor and if he oversteps his bounds or begins to preach sermons which are not up to Biblical standards they can him. It also eliminates the personal ownership of a church by a Pastor, which can go bad quickly.
I will add that pastors are not known for their business acumen and the board provides this service as well.

My own Pastor is an employee of the church as well as a member and it has worked well for us over the years. It is, by the way, a Mega church.


28 posted on 12/17/2012 8:00:28 AM PST by buffaloguy
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Of course! To do otherwise would be as silly as not letting our parties’ power brokers select our presidential candidates for us!


29 posted on 12/17/2012 8:04:45 AM PST by null and void (Going Galt: The won't of the people)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Sorta like how the poltical parties used to pick a president?


30 posted on 12/17/2012 8:15:18 AM PST by FreedomNotSafety
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
What say you?

**************

1 Timothy 5:17ff is a good place to begin.

Paul is writing to his young protege Timothy regarding the care and the governance of the local expression of the Body of Christ...

He speaks of the (qualified) elders (plural)...
.... that rule...
.... transliterated as (those who) direct the affairs of the church...
In the context of the honor (respect /compensation) these men deserve for the commitment of their time and talents.

Of special note are especially those who labor in preaching and teaching....
... connoting that the preachers/teachers are found among the (qualified) elders of the church.

*************

Acts 14:23
... the first elders were appointed by the apostolic team with prayer and fasting....

Ephesians 4:11ff
.... tells us about the five ministerial effects/offices that Christ has given to lead, teach strengthen, govern His church...

...and Titus 1:5
....might also give you some insight...

Hope this helps.

31 posted on 12/17/2012 8:28:31 AM PST by Wings-n-Wind (The main things are the plain things!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You should find it in the bylaws/rules of your particular denomination, not in scripture.


32 posted on 12/17/2012 8:33:25 AM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I do agree with the last several posts: many denominations (mine in Presbyterian Church in America) have established procedures, which I’ll outline in a sec.

The reason there is a deacon board (elders, in the case of the PCA) is to have a group charged with insuring the integrity of how the Word of God is taught within the congregation - both in the pulpit and in individual ‘sunday school’ or Bible study teaching situations.

These men are chosen based on their experience, training, personal integrity, testimony (Biblical principles from James) to assume this role. In many congregations they would adjudicate the pastoral decision.

In my PCA experience (both as a deacon and pastoral search committee member), the search committee was in charge of the entire process of conducting the search, collecting personal data from applicants, contacting men for interviews, performing background checks, etc. Once we settled on a choice, we then notified the Elders (the ‘board’, I presume, in your writeup) to conduct a more detailed interview based on their requirements.

Even after that, we weren’t done: the regional Presbytery had to have a say in interviewing the candidate and performing an examination before their acceptance of him as a member of the Presbytery.

At each step in the process, something could have come up that would have derailed the candidate. In my experience, we did indeed prevail, and the candidate was hired.

The goals of the PCA’s process are to insure that the teaching each pastor will provide are consistent with the scriptural worldview of the PCA in general - that no heresies will be cropping up. We are very careful about that - starting from the seminaries and throughout the pastor-selection and retention process. We do believe that it is a Biblical-based procedure, adhering to the demands of the scriptures that Paul wrote about in several places, plus the government organization of the church (the apostles being our Elders; the deacons being those in charge of service). For convenience, the PCA added additional layers (General Assy. and regional Presbyteries) that provide checks and balances on the local churches as well.

Now - that’s OUR method. I have seen/heard of other methods. I also know of ugly church splits that have occurred over the hiring of new pastors, the firing of old ones (that’s most difficult, because the church membership is often shielded from the details of ‘why’).

It is certainly possible that your Board decided that they wanted to do the initial culling of candidates to remove those who clearly would not work out for your church’s situation. Sure, it COULD be a ‘control’ issue - but not necessarily (I’ve actually known of a church that hand-picked a guy because he was the ‘good old boy’ that the board knew and wanted - and that decision caused a split. But it is also possible that they opted to reduce the work (and if a search committee does it right, there’s a bunch of work to do) by rejecting those who clearly could not pass muster [my own committee did so for at least half the applicants].

Sorry so long - there ARE some Biblical principles to follow in terms of the character of the man; not so much on the procedure of selection, but the terms ‘examination’ and ‘reputation’ are good themes to go by. How this is implemented is left to local governance.


33 posted on 12/17/2012 8:35:58 AM PST by alancarp (Liberals: making promises that no one's wallet can keep,)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
The only solution is to make it known that the position is open and allow at most the first 12 who have applied .... The members should be praying, and then decide, with multiple votes possibly being necessary until one gets 50% plus. of the vote.....The only 12 who should be considered are those in good standing with the fellowship, and are either licensed or ordained to preach within that fellowship. If they meet that criteria, one of those 12 will most likely end up being the pastor. No tossing of names then by a board that might toss the names of those ministers they know they won’t be able to control.

And your Scriptural authority for this proposal is found where?

FReegards!


34 posted on 12/17/2012 8:55:46 AM PST by Agamemnon (Darwinism is the glue that holds liberalism together)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
What say you?

What polity?

Is this a board of elders? If so, I'd say, yes, it's part of their job.

35 posted on 12/17/2012 9:16:46 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("You keep using that verse, but I do not think it means what you think it means." --I. Montoya)
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To: mom4melody

It isn’t that hard Mom.

If the Church doesn’t get donations pretty soon they get the message.


36 posted on 12/17/2012 9:17:34 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Venturer

Oh, okay, I get it.

It’s Monday...sometimes the brain cells are still asleep...


37 posted on 12/17/2012 9:20:43 AM PST by mom4melody
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Is not the board, in effect, indirectly choosing which pastor the people will decide on to be their pastor if they can toss the names of those ministers (for example) they think that perhaps they can't or won't be able to control once that minister is voted in?

Yes, and yes, it's one of their job duties. Why would a church want an uncontrollable pastor or desire to vote on a pastor that would oppose their board of elders?

38 posted on 12/17/2012 11:00:59 AM PST by Valpal1
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To: mom4melody; GeronL

“They received over 200 applications.

If everyone one of those have a trial sermon, and was reviewed by the Congregation it would take over 4 years.”

That one is easy. Just set up a good old fashion tent revival that lasts two weeks and let all of them take a turn every night till they have all spoken.

I know some of these protestant tent revivals in WV can have a min. of three preachers easy. Go for broke and try 5 or 7 a night.

Just be sure to offer “Prayer and medication” afterwards :)


39 posted on 12/17/2012 6:46:35 PM PST by Morgana (Time to play cowboys and muslims.)
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To: Morgana

bump!!


40 posted on 12/17/2012 6:52:28 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL

oh hey...found this online....

Church Bulletin Bloopers

Jean is leading a weight-management series on Wednesday nights. She has used the program herself and is growing like crazy.
The Pastor’s seminar on fasting will be held this Saturday morning at 9 A.M. in the Fellowship Hall. Coffee and donuts will be served.
Don’t waist time on diets, join the church’s aerobic class.
The Women’s League reported that Mrs. Springston, a grandmother of five, made a hole in one last week. Good Shooting!
Ushers will beat latecomers.
On behalf of Barbara Rutledge and her family, our sincere thanks to all those sending cards and flowers and contributing to the death of her husband.
The red nose spray on the altar is in celebration of the Smith’s 25th wedding anniversary.
Irving Benson and Jessie Carter were married on October 24 in the church. So ends a friendship that began in school days.
Continue to pray for Rita Slone, a blind member of our missionary team who got a new kidney from her father she hasn’t seen in years.
Baptist Men’s Fellowship Group Helps Dog Bite Victim.
This Friday is our annual church hayride. Bring a pack of hot dogs and guns. We’ll have a good time.
Weight Watchers will meet a 7 p.m. at the First Presbyterian Church. Please use large double door at the side entrance.
The rosebud on the altar this morning is to announce the birth of David Alan Belzer, the sin of Rev. and Mrs. Julius Belzer.
The senior choir invites any member of the congregation who enjoys sinning to join the choir.
Remember in prayer the many who are sick of our church and community.
For those of you who have children and don’t know it, we have a nursery downstairs.
Next Sunday a special collection will be taken to defray the cost of the new carpet. All those wishing to do something on the carpet should come forward and do so.
The ladies of the church have cast off clothing of every kind. They can be seen in the church basement Saturday.
Thursday night—Potluck supper. Prayer and medication to follow.
Eight new choir robes are currently needed, due to the addition of several new members and to the deterioration of some older ones.
At the evening service tonight, the sermon topic will be “What is Hell?” Come early and listen to our choir practice.
During the absence of our pastor, we enjoyed the rare privilege of hearing a good sermon when reverend Jack Graham supplied our pulpit.
The Rev. Adams spoke briefly, much to the delight of his audience.
The church is glad to have with us today as our guest minister the Rev. Shirley Green, who has Mrs. Green with him. After the service we request that all remain in the sanctuary for the Hanging of the Greens.
The eighth graders will be presenting Shakespeare’s “Hamlet” in the church basement on Friday at 7 p.m. The congregation is invited to attend this tragedy.
The 1991 Spring Council Retreat will be hell May 10 and 11.
Pastor is on vacation. Massages can be given to church secretary.
Please join us as we show our support for Amy and Alan in preparing for the girth of their first child.
Scouts are saving aluminum cans, bottles and other items to be recycled. Proceeds will be used to cripple children.
Don’t let worry kill you — let the church help.
Bertha Belch, a missionary from Africa will be speaking tonight at Calvary Memorial Church in Racine. Come tonight and hear Bertha Belch all the way from Africa.
Barbara remains in the hospital and needs blood donors for more transfusions. She is also having trouble sleeping and requests tapes of Pastor Jack’s sermons.
If you choose to heave during the Postlude, please do so quietly.
There is a sign-up sheet for anyone wishing to be water baptized on the table in the foyer.


41 posted on 12/17/2012 7:01:05 PM PST by Morgana (Time to play cowboys and muslims.)
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To: Morgana

those are funny


42 posted on 12/17/2012 7:20:10 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

putting everything religious up to vote leads to the base denominator winning — as we see in the PCUSA’s vote for gay marriage....


43 posted on 12/17/2012 11:20:11 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Venturer

well, the thing about that is that we need to learn that the pastor is just a temporary person and the REAL High Priest is there in the Eucharist


44 posted on 12/17/2012 11:21:28 PM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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